1/10 Dirt Oval Gear Setup

alvin l nunley

Premium User
No scales , no problem a simple math solution .
How would you do the math without scales? Maybe you were thinking "no electronic scales".

You need some kind of scales. After that, the math is fairly easy. The first time! And if everything is like you wanted, you're done. Real simple. The difficult part starts after that, if the numbers are not what you want. Not insurmountable, and still pretty simple math, just a lot of it.

Let's say your cross is off, from where you want it, by about - 1 3/8%. Do the math for that! It gets very difficult.
With my program you just change the cross percentage by that number and all the corner numbers change. Weights and percentages. Still giving you the exact same kart and driver weight. Same thing with the left and front percentages. And while you're doing this, your original input number stays the same, in case you want to go back. Which is also easy!

You're right, there probably are a lot of corner weight programs out there. I've seen a few of them, some good, some bad, but I've seen none that will do what mine will do. With absolute precision.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
For a beginner maybe .
I would move 3 washers . Then rescale if not what I wanted move one on the other side .
Front and left can only be changed via weight or seat placement .
If I need 1% and im at 350# I know I need to add a minimum of 3.5 lbs more .
Oh but wait now my weights no longer 350# it's 353.5 .
The reality is I've got 5 lb pucks of lead so I'll be pretty darn close.
Not 100% mathmaticly close but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades .
 
For a beginner maybe .
I would move 3 washers . Then rescale if not what I wanted move one on the other side .
Front and left can only be changed via weight or seat placement .
If I need 1% and im at 350# I know I need to add a minimum of 3.5 lbs more .
Oh but wait now my weights no longer 350# it's 353.5 .
The reality is I've got 5 lb pucks of lead so I'll be pretty darn close.
Not 100% mathmaticly close but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades .
someone with 54 years of experience you would think they would realize you don't race at the exact Min weight allowed for the class, your right you always allow a little.
 

alvin l nunley

Premium User
someone with 54 years of experience you would think they would realize you don't race at the exact Min weight allowed for the class, your right you always allow a little.
I agree 100%, nobody's going to scale at the class minimum. It would be stupid to think that they do. Thing is, when people don't tell you how much they weigh at the scales, what are you going to do? You have to use the weight they tell you, you don't want to guess at the actual scale weight. You use the weight that they tell you and let them adjust for what they actually way.

I think it equally stupid to give out percentages without knowing the turn radius, the banking, the dirt conditions or the make, model and year of the kart, amongst other things.

I sit in wonder at the size of the database people must be drawing from to give out to these numbers. Regardless of the track, or size of the track, or the layout of the track, there are some who can come up with, supposedly, good numbers. It's an ability far beyond my own. All I can do is follow their instructions and give out corner weights, and percentages, based on their instructions.
 
I agree 100%, nobody's going to scale at the class minimum. It would be stupid to think that they do. Thing is, when people don't tell you how much they weigh at the scales, what are you going to do? You have to use the weight they tell you, you don't want to guess at the actual scale weight. You use the weight that they tell you and let them adjust for what they actually way.

I think it equally stupid to give out percentages without knowing the turn radius, the banking, the dirt conditions or the make, model and year of the kart, amongst other things.

I sit in wonder at the size of the database people must be drawing from to give out to these numbers. Regardless of the track, or size of the track, or the layout of the track, there are some who can come up with, supposedly, good numbers. It's an ability far beyond my own. All I can do is follow their instructions and give out corner weights, and percentages, based on their instructions.
Please school us on what the turn radius and banking would have to do with the percentages !!
 
Don't let this confuse you, but for any given kart and driver weight, if you change the percentages, you change the corners, if you change the corners you change the percentages. That's why we have percentages, we want to know what each corner should way. Change any percentage, and the appropriate corners change. Enter the corner weights (kart and driver) and the percentages change. Change the kart and driver weight, all the corner weights change but the corner percentages stay the same.

For a given kart and driver weight, the percentages give you the corners, the corners give you the percentages. There's no way to change the corners without changing the percentages. There's no way to change the percentages without changing the corners. Of course this is given the same kart and driver weight.
For instance;
You know the kart and driver weight from the last time you raced. You put your kart on the scales, you write down the corner weights, this will tell you what your percentages were at the last race. Save those corner weights. Let's say your percentages don't match what the local hot shoe said you should have, so you change one of the percentages, the corner weights will change. You change another one of the percentages, corner weights will change again. Change another etc. etc. I have a corner weights and percentages spreadsheet with which I can prove all this is 100% true, no exceptions.

Comments, compliments, criticisms, questions. All are welcome.
This proves my earlier point, just plain confusing. Lets just scramble words, throw in more words, add some of the same words in multiples, and confuse folks.
Once confused maybe they will pay for a spreadsheet.
 

Pops90

Member
It isn't hard, get your staggers and cambers right, get on the tires that you are going to run with the air pressure set close to where you think you will run and put the kart on the scales.

(RF+LF)/Total Weight x 100 = Nose Weight %
(LF+LR)/Total Weight x 100 = Left Side Weight %
(RF+LR)/Total Weight x 100 = Cross Weight %

Discrete corner weights by themselves aren't worth worrying about. This can be done with 4 bathroom scales if that is all you have. Keep it simple.
 

alvin l nunley

Premium User
It isn't hard, get your staggers and cambers right, get on the tires that you are going to run with the air pressure set close to where you think you will run and put the kart on the scales.

(RF+LF)/Total Weight x 100 = Nose Weight %
(LF+LR)/Total Weight x 100 = Left Side Weight %
(RF+LR)/Total Weight x 100 = Cross Weight %

Discrete corner weights by themselves aren't worth worrying about. This can be done with 4 bathroom scales if that is all you have. Keep it simple.
Correct, very good, one problem solved. Your numbers exactly match the numbers in my spreadsheet.

Now, if I want to change the cross percent, say from 60% to 61%, show me the math. Same with nose and left. All simple math, I know that, but who wants to do all that math? And do it again if you want to change something else, and again, and again. Wouldn't it be nice to just change that 60% cross to 61% and instantaneously see the results at all 4 corners. Simple math, like I said, and you illustrated.
 
Correct, very good, one problem solved. Your numbers exactly match the numbers in my spreadsheet.

Now, if I want to change the cross percent, say from 60% to 61%, show me the math. Same with nose and left. All simple math, I know that, but who wants to do all that math? And do it again if you want to change something else, and again, and again. Wouldn't it be nice to just change that 60% cross to 61% and instantaneously see the results at all 4 corners. Simple math, like I said, and you illustrated.
" AGAIN " to change cross you move washers NOT weight, on kart scales you change cross you do instantaneously see the corner weights.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Correct, very good, one problem solved. Your numbers exactly match the numbers in my spreadsheet.

Now, if I want to change the cross percent, say from 60% to 61%, show me the math. Same with nose and left. All simple math, I know that, but who wants to do all that math? And do it again if you want to change something else, and again, and again. Wouldn't it be nice to just change that 60% cross to 61% and instantaneously see the results at all 4 corners. Simple math, like I said, and you illustrated.
Here is the situation as I see it .
Bench racing vs real time racing is totally different .
The math says how much weight changed where .
The math can not tell what too change , what too move or how far too move it for the desired results .
 

Pops90

Member
Correct, very good, one problem solved. Your numbers exactly match the numbers in my spreadsheet.

Now, if I want to change the cross percent, say from 60% to 61%, show me the math. Same with nose and left. All simple math, I know that, but who wants to do all that math? And do it again if you want to change something else, and again, and again. Wouldn't it be nice to just change that 60% cross to 61% and instantaneously see the results at all 4 corners. Simple math, like I said, and you illustrated.
The best thing to do is to move a washer on either LF or RF spindle and put the kart back on the scales. If you find that moving a washer is worth 2% of cross, then you know where you will end up without needing to re-scale every single time. The same principle holds for other adjustments also. Do the scaling work up front in the shop, and you can make a lot more adjustments later without needing to re-scale every time.

If you want to add 5lb to the Right Front with a weight, there is nowhere that you are going to put that weight that will only add 5lb to the right front. As Racing Promoter said, cross is adjusted using washers.
 

Hrtmn450

Member
Put tires at 1-3/16 stagger front and rear. 4.5 left 5.5 right, ( you need roll speed.) Are you using tire prep? How many sets of tires do you have? 33s fire like crazy on goat but u cant run them every week and goat. If its definitely a 33 track I'd be punching high 50s and be on goat. Put that right front down into the ground some I'd try 3-4 flats and see how it turns. You gotta get it turning before you worrie about gear. Should be able to flat foot a preditor. If hes lifting karts way wrong. Just my 2 cents.
 

GClary

Member
The best thing I can tell you from running my Bad Max on a similar track . Set 1 1/2 inch stagger front to start , 1 inch in the rear , get your % where you want it , then up cross 3% and add a puck of 5lbs weight to the front center , with the bolt going right straight thru the star . Don't know why , but that always helped me . And Tires , Tires , Tires . That track needs prep on tires and better track prep . JMO
 

alvin l nunley

Premium User
If I need 1% and im at 350# I know I need to add a minimum of 3.5 lbs more .
Why do you need 3.5 pounds more? Where do you need 3.5 pounds more?
On the front? Right or left? Maybe centered? That's going to change all 3 percentages isn't it!

Why add to the karts weight? With my software, change any of the 3 percentages and instantaneously know how much each corner has to change, weight and percentage. With no increase in that 350 pound kart and driver weight.
 
Why do you need 3.5 pounds more? Where do you need 3.5 pounds more?
On the front? Right or left? Maybe centered? That's going to change all 3 percentages isn't it!

Why add to the karts weight? With my software, change any of the 3 percentages and instantaneously know how much each corner has to change, weight and percentage. With no increase in that 350 pound kart and driver weight.
He doesn't say 3.5 lb he says a 5 lb puck and he says in the center.
 

alvin l nunley

Premium User

Maybe you missed this one? Always look before you leap.
flattop1

Dawg 89​

For a beginner maybe .
I would move 3 washers . Then rescale if not what I wanted move one on the other side .
Front and left can only be changed via weight or seat placement .
If I need 1% and im at 350# I know I need to add a minimum of 3.5 lbs more .
Oh but wait now my weights no longer 350# it's 353.5 .
The reality is I've got 5 lb pucks of lead so I'll be pretty darn close.
Not 100% mathmaticly close but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades .

Airtight Garage Est 1982
Waller Racing
Phantom Chassis
Dover Power
Paid 4 cycle subscriber
 

Maybe you missed this one? Always look before you leap.[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]flattop1

Dawg 89​

For a beginner maybe .
I would move 3 washers . Then rescale if not what I wanted move one on the other side .
Front and left can only be changed via weight or seat placement .
If I need 1% and im at 350# I know I need to add a minimum of 3.5 lbs more .
Oh but wait now my weights no longer 350# it's 353.5 .
The reality is I've got 5 lb pucks of lead so I'll be pretty darn close.
Not 100% mathmaticly close but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades .

Airtight Garage Est 1982
Waller Racing
Phantom Chassis
Dover Power
Paid 4 cycle subscriber
Sorry looked at it wrong I thought you quoted post # 95, which was the last post at the time.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Why do you need 3.5 pounds more? Where do you need 3.5 pounds more?
On the front? Right or left? Maybe centered? That's going to change all 3 percentages isn't it!

Why add to the karts weight? With my software, change any of the 3 percentages and instantaneously know how much each corner has to change, weight and percentage. With no increase in that 350 pound kart and driver weight.
Here is the situation as I see it .
Bench racing vs real time racing is totally different .
The math says how much weight changed where .
The math can not tell what too change , what too move or how far too move it for the desired results .
When you can plug your spread sheet into the kart and adjust the %'s .
Then you would have the best thing since buttered bread .
Until then it's a tool to play with nothing more .
It's nice , it's accurate and it's quicker then a pencil and paper .
I can play around with it and my weights but translating the results too the chassis is a totally different situation .
 
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