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196cc performance problems

A

Alex baja boom

Member
I have a 196cc engine, im not sure on the brand. I enjoy small engine mechanics, but have never messed much with timing. I completely dissembled this engine to deep clean and paint it for use on a go cart, but after reassembling it refuses to run. I installed a new jet, air intake and exhaust, as well as an 8 degree timing key. Could somebody help me out?? I am suspecting the timing key, due to the fact I have never used one before or messed with timing at all.
 
Also note, I have good compression, very good spark, and a new carb and jet with a cold air intake installed. I really can not see what could be wrong, the engine ran before tear down.
 
Timing key is probably backwards , or sheared already if it backfired at all .
Put the original back in .
The key should have the cut out in the rear , so the flywheel moves clockwise .
 
Give us more details about the build , did you get inside the engine , or just the external parts ? The more we know helps us figure out what advice we can give . Pictures can even help . Stock flywheel , ect. ect.
 
GClary said:
Give us more details about the build , did you get inside the engine , or just the external parts ? The more we know helps us figure out what advice we can give . Pictures can even help . Stock flywheel , ect. ect.
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I disassembled the engine completely. All I did not remove were the studs that hold the rocker arms for the valves. It has the stock flywheel, 18 lb. valve springs, and a 8 degree flywheel key, plus full stage 1. Governor is deleted, and it has a new spark plug as well. I will try to get pictures asap
 
I would change the flywheel for 1 thing , stock will not cut it on a built engine . I don't know what you mean by a stage 1. Or I don't know what is used in a stage 1 would be better stated . When you put everything back together inside the engine , you aligned the cam and crank dots ? What fuel are you running , gas or meth ? What jet (Jets) did you install ? Are you getting any spark at all ? With an 8 timing key and a stock flywheel , your not to far advanced on timing yet , so it should run . That is as long as everything else was done correctly . What is the amount of gap between the coil posts and the flywheel magnets ? Are you using a floor mounted gas tank , did you prime fuel to the carb ? Full details are most helpful ..
 
"According to manufacturer's instructions", sometimes they get a little vague.

Looking at the flywheel side of the engine, without the flywheel, is the slot on the keyway on the right-hand side of the key. I'm assuming a stock flywheel.

I need to ask, do the timing marks on the cam gear and crank gear lineup?

After trying to start the engine, is the spark plug wet? Does the exhaust have raw fuel coming out of it? What fuel tank are you using?

It's a fact, if the piston is going up and down, and has some compression, and it's getting spark, at the correct time, and it's getting fuel and area, in the right ratio, and the valves are opening and closing, at the correct time, it should be running.

So if it's not running, those are the things to check first.
 
alvin l nunley said:
"According to manufacturer's instructions", sometimes they get a little vague.

Looking at the flywheel side of the engine, without the flywheel, is the slot on the keyway on the right-hand side of the key. I'm assuming a stock flywheel.

I need to ask, do the timing marks on the cam gear and crank gear lineup?

After trying to start the engine, is the spark plug wet? Does the exhaust have raw fuel coming out of it? What fuel tank are you using?

It's a fact, if the piston is going up and down, and has some compression, and it's getting spark, at the correct time, and it's getting fuel and area, in the right ratio, and the valves are opening and closing, at the correct time, it should be running.

So if it's not running, those are the things to check first.
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Flywheel key is installed correctly, cam dots are lined up correctly, I have very good spark. There is no reason I know of that it shouldnt be running. The only thing I do not know about these engines is exact specs for timing. I left a .003 gap in the rockers at TDC. The thing doesnt even fire on starting fluid which is what confuses the **** out of me.
 
GClary said:
I would change the flywheel for 1 thing , stock will not cut it on a built engine . I don't know what you mean by a stage 1. Or I don't know what is used in a stage 1 would be better stated . When you put everything back together inside the engine , you aligned the cam and crank dots ? What fuel are you running , gas or meth ? What jet (Jets) did you install ? Are you getting any spark at all ? With an 8 timing key and a stock flywheel , your not to far advanced on timing yet , so it should run . That is as long as everything else was done correctly . What is the amount of gap between the coil posts and the flywheel magnets ? Are you using a floor mounted gas tank , did you prime fuel to the carb ? Full details are most helpful ..
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By stage one I mean the following; straight pipe, intake, and jet. I am running a 62 degree jet currently. Cam dots are aligned. I am running regular gasoline. I have good spark. Exact gap between coil posts and magnets is unknown, I just used a business card. My fuel tank is mounted about 6 inches above the engine and gravity feeds the carb. I did prime the bowl.
 
Econosprint2 said:
Does the motor fire at all? Cam timing 180 degrees off? Bad on/off switch?
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When I first put it together after complete disassembly and cleaning it fired and ran very poorly for a short time and then died. The on/off switch is functional. Im pretty sure the cam isnt off...? I aligned the dots.
 
Drain the gas and disconnect the gas line. Let the enigne dry out then pull start it several times. Then prime it in the spark plug hole with a small amount (2cc) of gas and see if it will fire and run the prime off. If you can do this a couple of times, then the ignition, head gasket and valves are ok and it's your carb flooding it out.
 
This may sound crazy. but sometimes you just get a spark plug that does not work properly. Try a new one with about a .030 to .035 gap. Looks like you have checked almost everything else.
Cam timing is correct
Ignition timing is correct
Has compression
correct jet in carb
Kill switch is not malfunctioning.
Should run! Most of the time it is usually something very simple and basic that creates problems. Spark plugs cause many problems!!!
When you stated that it would not run even using starting fluid. That eliminate a fuel problem. And you have checked everything else.
 
Alex baja boom said:
When I first put it together after complete disassembly and cleaning it fired and ran very poorly for a short time and then died. The on/off switch is functional. Im pretty sure the cam isnt off...? I aligned the dots.
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Did you remove the flywheel to inspect the flywheel key? I do not remember on this specific engine, but in many cases the flywheel must be removed to inspect the flywheel key. Looking at it with the starter cup removed might not be good enough. Your description of starting, running poorly for a short period of time, and died & will not restart, is classic sheared flywheel key on start up. Good spark has nothing to do with sheared key (except on point ignition engines).
 
DrDave75 said:
Did you remove the flywheel to inspect the flywheel key? I do not remember on this specific engine, but in many cases the flywheel must be removed to inspect the flywheel key. Looking at it with the starter cup removed might not be good enough. Your description of starting, running poorly for a short period of time, and died & will not restart, is classic sheared flywheel key on start up. Good spark has nothing to do with sheared key (except on point ignition engine
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Can confirm, that was the problem. Can't believe I didn't think of that. Thanks man!!
 
Alex baja boom said:
Can confirm, that was the problem. Can't believe I didn't think of that. Thanks man!!
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Every one who has had the same thing happen, Raise you hands! Probably most of us!!!! Have experienced almost every way possible to screw up an engine. I have even heard of some people changing oil after practice and then . during qualifying have problems because they forgot to put new oil in. Not going to mention any names.
 
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