196vs212

..........:confused: Hey Sneaks glad to see you back on, I'm a little confused ! Whats new right. lol

Sorry to confuse everyone. If your old enough (BH, Before Honda) You can remember anything with a utility motor was Briggs , Tecumseh, and a few others. Then ( Back in the 60's ?) Honda made gas motors that matched US base plate dimensions an HP specs to a number of items. I remember lots of finger pointing about copycats back then and tariffs and "Made in Japan" was not something you wanted. Just like Honda did to China. Sorry again, I'm just a junior member.
 
Sometimes conversations stray, no harm done. But thanks for keeping us inline with your self imposed internet rules, Oh what would we do without the internet police.
 
What are the differences between the 196 clone and the 212 HF engines? 16cc's in size, longer stroke and a bigger bore (stock that is)....sometimes bigger is better....we run flatheads, clones an d predators together in a stock appearing class and have close racing and fun!!
 
In a nut shell,- There have been over 20 different style 196cc clones in the past 10 years and only 2 -212 Predators , along with a few 208's..All of the 196-208-and OLD Style Predators will dyno within half a HP . Some of the yellows , like Dupor and Ducar are very good. some have advantages over others, like the Champion rocker system..With that said , the new Hemi Predators are showing some real racing advantages...If you like this topic, you may want to read my articles and dyno results in National Karting News...I see Bob's hasn't changed much...
 
What I was told that when Honda wanted to get into the lawn and garden market
they went to Lifan who is the largest engine maker their is in china.and that's were
Honda got its start.Back in the day if some recall the Honda cl70 or 50 or the sl70
those were Lifan engines.I do know that Briggs was the one who make their
starter rewinds.Now all of this could of changed and has but this is also why
Honda sued Lifan.so the story goes and what I have been told ?
 
Sorry modifiedman:
Quoted from Wikipedia, not my favorite source but I did verify on Lifan web page.

"Lifan was founded by former political dissident Yin Mingshan in 1992 as a motorcycle repair shop with a staff of nine. Mingshan has a long history of conflict with governmental authorities of all stripes but currently enjoys a good relationship with the Chinese Communist Party.[7] The company was originally called "Chongqing Hongda Auto Fittings Research Centre".[8] Lifan had already become a major motorcycle manufacturer when it expanded into building buses in 2003.

Becoming the fifth-largest Chinese motorcycle maker in only seventeen years,[5] the company was renamed Lifan Industry Group in 1997."

This is long after the cl/sl line from Honda was made.
Lifan was formed in 1992 Honda sued them and won in 1996.

"Honda Wins Compensation from Lifan for Patent Infringement

On May 22, the Shanghai 2nd Intermediate People's Court made the first instance judgment on the patent infringement case in which Honda Motor Co. Ltd. and Wuyang-Honda Motorcycle (Guangzhou) Co. Ltd. sued Lifan Group and Shanghai Wen'an Motorcycle Co. Ltd. for Copying Honda's patented design of a motorcycle.

In May 1996, Japanese Honda Motor Co. Ltd. filed with the Chinese Patent Office an application for a patent for design of a motorcycle and was granted with the patent right No. ZL96305242.X in April 1997. At the end of 2003, Wuyang-Honda was authorized to exploit the patent for design and to intervene as a coplaintiff in any action against infringement.

According to the two plaintiffs, the motorcycle "LF 100T," manufactured by Lifan Group, was similar to the patented design No. ZL96305242.X. Lifan sold the motorcycles to Wen'an who sold the infringing motorcycles in the market. Therefore, the plaintiffs requested the court to order that the two defendants stop the infringement, make an apology and compensate RMB 500,000 yuan to Honda Motor Co. Ltd."
 
Please elaborate. Whats different about it for those of us who don't know. Thanks.

The first 212 cam boses were bigger than the clone. Also the turkey leggs are at a different angle. Not all parts will interchange. The new 212's cam boses are the same as the 196's
clone 196c 68mm bore and 52mm stroke
predator 212cc 70mm bore and 54mm stroke
 
I don't believe that "new" hemi HF is with us any more.

I believe it was put into HF's supply chain to make up for some sort of supplier shortage. Try to find a hemi 212 now - good luck!
 
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