219 vs 35

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496 BB

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So if Im running a #35 chain setup now with a 11T driver and 72 rear sprocket would I gain more gear by going to a #219 driver?

So if I am doing my ratio correctly which I may not be I running a 6.54:1 final drive. Obviously I can not go more of rear as it hits the dirt. I want to go more as Im on a short bullring type oval. I know the pitch is different on the two types but am limited in the knowledge after that. If I switch to a #219 can I pick up more final ratio? I can get smaller driver for the #35 just wanted to know if physical outside diameters of the rear sprockets were that much different plus what the pros and cons were with the #219.

Say I ran a #219 11T driver what could I go up to comfortably without touching the dirt and still be higher that what I am now numerically in final drive ratio?
 
The question you need answered is if a 13t 219# is smaller than an 11t in 35# since I believe they are the smallest in each. If it is then you need to find the 219# gear that has the same diameter as the 72 in 35#.
 
gary10 said:
The question you need answered is if a 13t 219# is smaller than an 11t in 35# since I believe they are the smallest in each. If it is then you need to find the 219# gear that has the same diameter as the 72 in 35#.
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I'm not so sure about that. I know for an absolute fact that a 10 tooth 219 driver is smaller than a 9 tooth #35 driver. So why wouldn't a 12 tooth 219 driver not be smaller than a 11 tooth #35 driver? The whole reason for the existence of 219 chain is so the European direct drive karts could get a lower gear ratio.
Question is; will a 12 tooth 219, driver, fit on your clutch.
After that, the ratios are the same. A 6.54 is the same number of teeth in both chain sizes. Difference is, if you go with the 219, 12 tooth driver, (which is smaller than a 11 tooth #35 chain) you will need a 78 tooth axle gear which will be smaller than the 72 tooth #35 chain axle gear, to keep the same ratio. Almost anyway. With the 12 tooth driver, the 6.54 ratio falls right between the 78, and the 79 with a 219 rear sprocket.
Just remember; the ratios don't change, with the same number of teeth, with either chain. 6.54 is the same number of teeth, regardless.
 
Yea I can get in a #35 9T-23T

In a #219 11T-26T

Letter from SMC:

#35 sprockets with nine and ten teeth and #219 sprockets with 11, 12 and 13 teeth are too small to fit over the crankshaft. All these sprockets must be run outboard but the new Vortex sprockets rest on the crankshaft with only the sprocket teeth hanging off the end of the crankshaft. There is no problematic crankshaft extension. The advantage of #219 is a shorter pitch (.306 vs .375) which allows the chain to wrap around small sprocket with less vibration.

Just trying to get the easiest setup for having the ability to go up to a 7.3:1 final drive or around there. If the #219 does it with better ease Im game. Seems it would ride on the driver better with the pitch being shorter. Get more chain contact.
 
One question i have is if we are talking about a 2 or 4cycle?

Al, you keep saing the same number of teeth but that is not correct. Ratio yes, but not number of teeth.

I haven't personally used any of the smaller "arena" style clutch sprockets on a 4 cycle so I dont know what's available in each pitch. As Al stated if your smallest choices are 9t in 35# or 10t in 219# then you will want to go with 219#.

Keep in mind the smaller clutch drivers wear much quicker so you will be replacing them much sooner
 
The teeth are what give you the ratio, so how would a 10-100 #219 not be the same as a 10-100 #35? Lol.... The diameter, circumference or whatever you want to measure will change between the two. But, the math doesn't change.
 
You are obviously misunderstanding. I understand basic math and ratios just fine. He said they equal ratios have the same number of teeth talking about a 12/78 in 219# and then an 11 tooth equivalent in 35# would not have the same number of teeth. Either way this isnt worth mentioning
 
gary10 said:
One question i have is if we are talking about a 2 or 4cycle?

Al, you keep saing the same number of teeth but that is not correct. Ratio yes, but not number of teeth.

I haven't personally used any of the smaller "arena" style clutch sprockets on a 4 cycle so I dont know what's available in each pitch. As Al stated if your smallest choices are 9t in 35# or 10t in 219# then you will want to go with 219#.

Keep in mind the smaller clutch drivers wear much quicker so you will be replacing them much sooner
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a 10/70 is a 7.00 ratio. 219 or 35, makes no difference. I'm sure you will agree with that!
"Ratio yes, but not number of teeth." I have no idea what you're talking about. Close
Your 2nd point; I didn't state what you're saying. You've got to read these things.
What is an "arena" style clutch sprocket?
 
gary10 said:
You are obviously misunderstanding. I understand basic math and ratios just fine. He said they equal ratios have the same number of teeth talking about a 12/78 in 219# and then an 11 tooth equivalent in 35# would not have the same number of teeth. Either way this isnt worth mentioning
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if you're talking about me, I didn't say that. You've got to read these posts!!!
Take for example; 11/72 = 6.55 ratio in 35 chain. 11/72 = 6.55 in 219 chain. For 219 chain or 35 chain, the same number of teeth equal the exact same ratio. The difference is, the 219 chain sprockets will have a smaller diameter than the 35 sprockets. Both engine and axle.
Why is that so hard to understand?
P. S. Be a little more responsible when you quote somebody. Please.
 
Im done on this topic of pointlessness and misunderstanding. The lack of common sense is sickening. An arena style are ones that have to be run outboard because they are smaller than the crankshaft.
 
Hehe never a dull moment here at Bobs.

So is the consensus that if I run a 10T #35 driver and up to 72T rear I will be ok? I think so at least. Do you see using a #219 more beneficial than a #35?
 
I've recently been gathering information on #35 and #219 chain differences. I'm a long time 2 cycle sprint racer with a huge selection of 219 gears getting into 4 cycle sprint and dirt oval racing. So I needed to figure out what I had to do to run all of my #219 stuff I currently have.

They say #35 chain is stronger but wears out drivers and gears faster than #219 because you get more chain to teeth per square inch in #219 chain. I've been running 100cc yamahas and 125cc Rotax and Leopard Tag engines and have never broken a chain in #219, unless I ran over a curb. So I don't really agree with #35 being stronger.

Like what others have said the number of teeth on a #35 ratio front driver/rear gear is the same as a #219 front/rear ratio in terms of teeth numbers. The difference is the #35 drivers are larger in diameter than #219 when the teeth numbers are the same. From my understanding if you run a 15T #35 front driver you would need an 18t #219 front driver. So you need 3 to 4 teeth more on front drivers in #219 to get the same diameter driver in #35. Now rear gears are about a 15t difference for the same diameter.

Basically you can run more teeth in the rear in #219 and not hit the ground compared to #35.


Here is some really good info on #35 and #219 chain. http://www.tsracing.com/Techtips/TSchain.html

Now check this link out to get the correct diameters of the drivers and rear gears of #35 and #219 chain. http://www.tsracing.com/Techtips/TS35vs219.html
 
Just a follow up on changing from #35 to #219. I've read on here that some people say you need X number of teeth on a front driver on an oval or you just can't run up front even if you use a smaller front driver but have the same over all ratio. Some people say a ratio is a ratio and it shouldn't matter.

So if you are in the belief that a certain sized front driver ratio is better you need to account for the diameter differences between the two.

You can't really go from a 11t #35 driver to 11T #219 driver. You need to add 3 to 4 teeth more on a front driver when you switch to #219.

I hope this helps, because I was really confused at first until I did some research.
 
496 BB said:
Can you make these #219 chains shorter like a #35?
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You can get joiner links but they are not common. Most people just buy the correct size chains and if you need a different ratio and you cant move the engine much then you just fit a different length chain.
 
You can buy #219 chain in the correct lenghts or buy a chain breaker and make your own lenghts. I've never really seen anyone use masterlinks on #219. If you want to break the chains use the breaker and make your own lenght and then squeeze with pliers the link pin you used to break the chain when you put everything back together. If you do everything right you won't even notice where the chain was broken. But sometimes that link will be a little stiffer than the rest of the chain.

If you plan to make your own lengths you need a non o-ring chain. Most people use the RLV gold or the RK Gold chains that come in 114 link lenghts. I think I had to use a 114 and about 4 more links to make a 16-76 work and not let the motor hit the rear wheel.

If you don't want to break the chain the RK O-ring chains are really good, but very pricey. They are a little stiffer than the gold, but hold lube really well and last a very long time. You can buy them in various lenghts.
 
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