250 sprints

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
No class for 'em... Have no idea why Millbridge won't run the standard national classes....there's no 125's for 2014 either. There will be the 16hp 4-speed Marcus Ambrose "Thumper X", and a sealed "Sportsman" sealed 450/stock 500 class. And Open, as usual.
 

joe10

New member
Are we talking about the same kind of 250, im talking about stallards and rts and that type of sprint
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
Ahhh...sorry -- missed that this was in the micros. For a more applicable answer, yes they sometimes show up at Bear Creek Raceway in Dobson, NC (www.bearcreekracing.com), but not very many, and I think they only run 600's at Rolling Thunder in nearby Ararat, VA. Sorry for the brief departure. :)
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
TTT... I just bought a 250/270 micro... to the original poster, what do you have and where are you located?
 
Plenty of 230 racing in Pa. Lots of great racing and some of the best 270 racers in the country...If you can win at Lindas Speedway you can win anywhere!!!! Don't get discouraged if you don't make the show as these racers know their stuff!! lol Great exp if you race there. had 90 cars at the Lindas nationals just in 270 class!!! Was there last weekend and were 50 cars going for 24 spots!!
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
Is there any place that runs 250's (micros) in the midwest? Seems to be plenty of 600 racing and even some jr sprints (Briggs WF engines) but haven't seen or heard of 230-270 classes at all.

Looking for sources or info. Anyone?

Thanks,
Brian Carlson
 

Outrider

Member
While the 250/270 classes remain popular in some areas, as here in central PA, they can have an intimidating engine program, especially on the beginning side of the engine setup and maintenance learning curve - it's more labor intensive and more expensive than running a 600, unless you build your own engines and have the tools and knowledge necessary to take apart and reassemble a built up crankshaft. However, the biggest drawback in the long haul is going to be engine availability and cost, as the EPA has essentially killed the 250 two stroke water cooled motocross class from which these powerplants are derived. The hardcore competitors reply that the aftermarket will fill the gap, and they are right, but only at a price, and that price is driven by high production costs due to low volume due to small demand. The motocross industry has converted to larger displacement 4 stroke engines, so the 250/270 competitor is slowly being forced into the situation the quarter midget community found itself in many years ago, before they opened their rules up to the 120 and 160 Honda engines. Quarter midgets were powered (by rule requirements) by a specific flathead engine (not a Briggs; might have been a Continental) that came into existance during WWII to power small portable generators and things like that, that the military commonly used. For years they were common and cheap, then the supply slowly dried up as other engines came to be use by the military and civilians for these products. At the height of festivities, a rebuilt rulebook engine for your quarter midget cost $6000 IF you could find one to buy, because of supply (no current manufacture and none left in the surplus market) and demand (much bigger than supply, though the class was dying). And we are NOT talking 2010-2014 $$ here; in today's dollars, those engines would be over $10,000 for what is essentially a smallish lawnmower engine. That is where the 250/270 class is headed right now, slowly and inexorably, and if the rules structure is not revised (which would mean changing to rules using the current larger displacement 4 stroke engines now used in motocross racing in place of those 2 strokes) at some point, the competitive 250/270 class engines, which already cost more than a 600 engine to buy and maintain, will price the class out of existance, as almost happened with quarter midgets. The upside is that the chassis need not change, only the engine mount plates, so the cars presently out there would still be useful and competitive, just no longer powered by a stock or stroked and bored 250cc motocross motorcyle engine.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
Locally, all I've found is the 600s restricted for juniors. Looking for a realistic step between restricted 5HP Briggs to a 410 sprint car. 20 years ago this was the same problem when I made the step up...steep prices of cars, too many classes, and tracks too far between for a myriad of micro, mini, 1000, 1200cc, upright, sidewinder, whatever sprints, modified midgets, etc.
Today, prices on a decent turnkey 600 look to rival that of pulling one of my old sprint cars out of retirement. Just don't want to put the boys in one before they're ready. I've seen discussion on here previously about jr UAS packages but to my knowledge, it isn't available yet - just in the visionary stage. I'd sure like to see the winged outlaw cage karts or even something like limited mod sr champs to catch on locally for kids who are looking to get more seat time with enough power to spin the tires before you set their hair on fire in a full size sprint car. :)

Continental Deco engines, Outrider. Unbelievable that they stayed in 1/4 midgets so long -- kinda like the flatheads in karting!
 

Outrider

Member
The step from a KT100 or similar power level in a kart to a restricted 600 isn't particulary hair raising (nor is the same step to an unrestricted 600, for that matter) as long as the driver has had experience with that kart power level on tracks where they had to brake coming into corners, and micro sprint (or any other size sprint car for that matter) technology hasn't changed so much over the last 10 years that one needs new machinery to be competitive. We have done fine with a 2001 Hyper and both a Suzuki GSXR 600 and a 636 Kawasaki - both from the age of one injector per cylinder. The advantage of a chassis say 2004 or newer is that by then all the micro builders were into the "wide" chassis design mode, which is less cramped than mine. When my first driver moved up to a 358 limited sprint (going from about 125hp in the Kawi to about 650hp in the Don Ott 358 in those days) his only comment was that it was a little easier to spin the rear wheels in the 358, and he had to get used to waiting a moment to see over toward turn two as he came out of turn four onto the front stretch (and the same with four coming out of two) because the 358 was a downtube car and the 600 was a midrail car, so the downtube was in the way of his long vision for just a moment as the car straighened out - took about 20 laps for him to get used to that. The transition from a 600 to a full sized sprint was a bunch quicker to get used to than the jump from the kart to the 600. Used competitive turnkey 600s can be had at reasonable prices if you're patient, but the spares (wheels and shocks especially) can add up quick if you didn't get a bunch in the buyout of the previous owner, and none of that matters if there isn't a track within reasonable distance that runs them. We're lucky there too; two weekly tracks within less than an hour and 3 more in less than 2 hours, and 3 more larger tracks (3/8, 4/10 and 1/2 mile, which gets a bit hairy) that run them a couple of times a year as a filler class that are all within 1/2 hour or less.

Yup, that would be the one, the Continental Deco engine. Thanks for the memory jog.
 
Our local 1/4 mile track runs the 270's every weekend here in Florida. But they also allow the 450 4 strokes in the same class, because the old 2 stroke 250's are rare and dying fast! I'm helping a buddy build one now and we are having a heck of a time finding jugs, cases and parts. From what I've seem, the 270's and the 450's are pretty even, just like the transition in motocross when they allowed both.
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
The only track in NC running 270 is Rockfish, and they're allowing 450's, but I don't think the 450's can keep up here....it will probably have to be a forced decision by the rules makers at some point. Check microracing.com for parts.
 
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