Track Tac

$300 to check a set of valve springs

Just move to the NKA rule set and do away with all of the "backwoods" tech tools of the AKRA. It's simple. There is no room in any tech manual for any type of racing for the words "visual inspection". A huge piece of steel on a rod with a spacer to determine spring legality? Seriously? Real tools, measurements, and no-go's is what tech is... Not opinions, "feels" like, "looks" like, can you hear or feel that?, or flashlight tests! I have three clones from a top engine guy and when they are worn out I am out of the clones anyway. JMO.
 
VERY well put. Spot on. Racers (any type of racing) are, always have been, and always will be their own worst enemies, and it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. That's my mini rant for the day......





Curbjumper78 said:
I find it amusing to see all the responses and whining about the cost of clones. One guy blames the high cost on engine builders, the other guy blames it on track owners, another blames it on the mexican drug cartel...................... you get the point here. I'm not here to bash or insult ANYONE, but arent we (the racers) held accountable for paying what we pay? WE are the only ones who have control of our HARD EARNED CASH. WE choose to pay these higher costs to keep up with the competition level. I dont think anyone should ever pay $1000 for a "winning motor", but its their money, NOT MINE.

If engine builder "A" sells winning engines for $1000 and engine builder "B" sells winning engines as well for $400, WE get to choose to spend where we want to spend our money, correct?

Lets start holding ourselves accountable for our own actions, instead of blaming everything/everybody else. Just my $ .02
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I also agree with the post by curbjumper78, the racers are responsible for the prices we're paying, not builders or track owners. We got what we asked for, simple as that.
 
I also agree with the post by curbjumper78, the racers are responsible for the prices we're paying, not builders or track owners. We got what we asked for, simple as that.
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And this is because you will always have parents who will pay any amount for their child to get to the front. If they are not parents and buying for themselves they too will spend whatever it takes if they can. This is human nature and will never change. It is in every form of racing.

One thing I've noticed about racing through the years is; the more "spec" the rules the more expensive it is to win.

DK
 
If you can only build, let’s say 10 engines a month, and you’re getting 20 requests, why not raise your prices? It’s called; making hay while the sun shines.
It’s the American Way.
Comments, compliments, criticisms and questions always welcome.
 
Don K said:
And this is because you will always have parents who will pay any amount for their child to get to the front. If they are not parents and buying for themselves they too will spend whatever it takes if they can. This is human nature and will never change. It is in every form of racing.

One thing I've noticed about racing through the years is; the more "spec" the rules the more expensive it is to win.

DK
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One thing I have noticed about racing through the years is : the less specs in the rules, the further behind is the guy that is playing by spirit and intent.
 
I started this post about an hour ago with a little anger over some of the things that have been spoken. I deleted about 4 paragraphs and went to breakfast simply because I didn't feel very professional about the post. I have listened to those who speak with out much knowledge from research and shoot from the hip just to have something to post. I have listened to those who are in support of their own agenda. Now that I have had time to settle down, I will try it again. I do not think there is anyone in the country who has worked on the spring deal more than I. If so, I apologize for taking sole credit. Lets start from the beginning. No one ever looks back and takes the time to thank those who have given us the opportunity that we currently have using this engine. Everybody wants to bite the hand that feeds them. There wasn't any possible way for the engineers of this engine program to look into the future and foresee the problems that are in existence right now. If so, we wouldn't be having this conversation. No one knew, back in the day, how much evolution this engine was going to go through. It started out as " out of the box". Then the fuel tank was removed due to vibration and breakage. Then the exhaust system was updated to a more performance exhaust because it needed to sound better. Then the air box was restricting performance so along came the aftermarket air filter system. Now, shops are starting to see sales. Fuel tanks, carb adapters, and exhaust systems and mufflers. Next, you have a bunch of guys that want it to sound a little more like a race engine so how about a local track option that will allow a big pipe. Now we sound like a race engine!!! But, we can't turn the rpm we want because we are mushrooming the valves on the stock springs. So, lets make a better spring. Everybody is on board for this. No one to my knowledge has complained. Until there was a recognition that some of the springs were better than others. To my knowledge, ALL organizations were on board when the Spring weight system came about. Everyone was in agreement that we needed a way to control the spring pressure. They tried to use the current " on the market" spring pressure gauges but there was way to much inconsistency between the same two units. Now, I am not sure who in the organization came up with the weight system but everyone was in agreement that it was the way to go. And so it was. It actual was doing it's job of keeping the spring under control for quite some time without controversy. Until there was a new spring on the market that was designed to run a few races or run on the dyno until it came down to the legal pressures required. Now it is in the hands of the builders to make sure that the spring in the engine is legal. It is also in the hands of the supplier to sell a legal spring to the customer. If a small guy, ( DIY'er) can't afford the tester it is his responsibility to inform the seller that he MUST have a set of LEGAL springs because he doesn't have the tooling to check it. Knowing that the weight system is a part of the tech procedure it is the responsibility of the seller or the builder to make sure he has a set of legal springs. How hard is that to understand? So because of negligence on every ones part we should open the spring rule so no one is held responsible for their own mistakes. Sure, lets open the rod rule so we have to spend 60 bucks on a rod just because there were people not responsible for paying attention to the spring rule and they got D.Q.'d. Next , lets allow aftermarket rockers to the tune of 30 dollars because we are turning more RpM and are now breaking them. Oh, and by the way , lets allow a better push rod for 20 dollars because now that we are turning more rpm we are bending them. Shucks, while we are at it we might as well send the engine out to get the cam gear welded so it doesn't slip to the tune of 20 dollars. I worked my but off trying to figure out a way to not use the tooling. Every spring maker I talked with told me that even if we came up with an uninstalled height, they would be able to make a spring that would still turn to many rpm for the stock components. Now that doesn't mean the AKRA isn't going to stop looking for a resolution to the situation because I haven't stopped yet. But, until we find the resolution that will keep the added cost to this engine from happening the weight system is our best friend for now. It is the responsibility of the builder no matter who it is to make sure that the springs are legal to the program they are running under. If you are not competent enough to build the engine around the rules you are working under don't put the blame elsewhere. Quit putting the blame on the equipment that is used to catch your mistake.
 
" Until we find the resolution that will keep the added cost to this engine from happening the weight system is our best friend for now. It is the responsibility of the builder no matter who it is to make sure that the springs are legal to the program they are running under. If you are not competent enough to build the engine around the rules you are working under don't put the blame elsewhere. Quit putting the blame on the equipment that is used to catch your mistake"

Very well said....
 
so basically you are saying that if I am a DIY'er engine builder because I dont have the money to spend on a "shop built engine", I am completely responsible if any part of my engine fails tech. I COMPLETELY AGREE with that. I am taking the chance by doing everything myself.

But if I understand your comment correctly, WE THE RACERS, are not allowed to hold manufactuers accountable for making parts that will not pass tech? I hope I interpreted that correctly, and if I didnt, I apologize in advance.

I'm not whining nor complaining, so please dont take it that way. I stand by my original statement- WE choose to spend our money however we feel necessary. If I choose to buy a set of "akra legal springs" from a manufactuer, I expect them to be akra legal springs though. No ifs, ands, or butts about it. Racers are ordering springs with their hard earned money, installing them, and getting tossed on race day for being out of spec. nobody is blaming the tech tools, tech guy, racing organization. MANUFACTUERS. I dont understand why we cant hold someone else accountable in this situation. NOT ALL situations. This situation. Now, with that being said, WE RACERS will have to find a different manufactuer of this product because NOW it is a known problem and if we continue to buy the exact same product, we are guilty of having the knowledge and running these bad products. I saw alot of guys lose alot of money over a weekend from a manufactured product that was labeled and sold as "akra legal".
 
Curbjumper78 said:
so basically you are saying that if I am a DIY'er engine builder because I dont have the money to spend on a "shop built engine", I am completely responsible if any part of my engine fails tech. I COMPLETELY AGREE with that. I am taking the chance by doing everything myself.

But if I understand your comment correctly, WE THE RACERS, are not allowed to hold manufactuers accountable for making parts that will not pass tech? I hope I interpreted that correctly, and if I didnt, I apologize in advance.

I'm not whining nor complaining, so please dont take it that way. I stand by my original statement- WE choose to spend our money however we feel necessary. If I choose to buy a set of "akra legal springs" from a manufactuer, I expect them to be akra legal springs though. No ifs, ands, or butts about it. Racers are ordering springs with their hard earned money, installing them, and getting tossed on race day for being out of spec. nobody is blaming the tech tools, tech guy, racing organization. MANUFACTUERS. I dont understand why we cant hold someone else accountable in this situation. NOT ALL situations. This situation. Now, with that being said, WE RACERS will have to find a different manufactuer of this product because NOW it is a known problem and if we continue to buy the exact same product, we are guilty of having the knowledge and running these bad products. I saw alot of guys lose alot of money over a weekend from a manufactured product that was labeled and sold as "akra legal".
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I agree with you 100%. If you loose a race because a supplier sent you a bad set of springs it should be the supplier's problem if the supplier was informed that you wanted a set of springs that are legal from the get go. I am sure that if you requested that the springs you order are 100% legal, the supplier will accommodate. If he knows you are serious about the situation he now takes on the responsibility of demonstrating his honesty to you as a customer. If not, he risks his reputation and he could become exposed. If he has springs that do not meet the spec, he should not send them out unless you request that type of spring. Suppliers are just that. They supply what you want. Then YOU resume the responsibility of passing the weight test. Communication over this issue will go a long way.
 
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NCStratos288 said:
I feel the pain too... I'm up to paying $1,050 for my clones...an engine that starts out as a $150 engine. I think we're back to a point to where the Animal is making sense again...
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I thought Clones were the cheap alternative? I paid $1250 for my animal, 44 races with nothing but oil changes and check rocker clearances. Who made out better?
 
Bonanza said:
I thought Clones were the cheap alternative? I paid $1250 for my animal, 44 races with nothing but oil changes and check rocker clearances. Who made out better?
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That depends on what the cost of a rebuild will be for the 44 race animal.
 
The kart owner is fully responsible for the kart as it is presented to tech.
The rationale is that there is not going to be an argument at tech about he said, she said, who did what etc.etc.etc.

You, the kart owner are responsible....like it or not to be legal.
See NASCAR.....one rod is 1/8th of a gram heavy.....engine built by Toyota.....team DQ'd in tech. Same deal in karting.

Caveat emptor.
 
and Im sure Toyota will pay for that mistake. They have the money to pay for their mistakes. This isnt nascar!!! Bad comparison. The guy who paid for a $15 set of "legal" springs and gets DQ'd and loses a $500 payday is not going to be compensated. NOW, they are noted as being the guy who got caught cheating.

Everyone knows that the kart owner has to take responsibility for anything that happens in tech. That is not the answer to the original question nor is it relevant to this thread. Nobody would blame a techman for an improper head gasket thickness. THAT is an example of an improperly built engine. This thread is about proper procedures for checking springs and how to resolve all of the issues that most racers are encountering due to springs being DQ'd lately.
 
DynoDon said:
You prove to me that the 44 race event engine is still a winner amongst other animals that are fresh. Now that there to me is funny.
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Heck--you won't get 44 races out of a Clone without having to carry it back to the builder because of a rule change!
 
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