4 stroke vs 2 smoker?

500 to rebuild kt100, 500 full rebuild clone. even less for a lo206.
3 piece crank, all those needle bearings in the rod you sure there are fewer parts?
clone rod $7.00, Yamaha rod is $99 with bearings brings the price up to $153
arc billet rod is 99 for a limited and comes with bearings.

everytime people give the argument for the ring ding $$$$ it never adds up when you do the real math.
 
J'-remy said:
500 to rebuild kt100

everytime people give the argument for the ring ding $$$$ it never adds up when you do the real math.
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With respect,

LOL!!!! $500 to rebuild a KT??? I love it when this is thrown out there. If you take care of the 2-cycle, you usually only replace the ring & sometimes a piston.

Of course it will depend on who your engine builder is and what "THEY" want you to replace. More parts = more time & that = more money.

Brian #89
 
going by the price quoted from Buller. is he bad at building these things? sorry with all due respect if the Yamaha was a less expensive cheaper race engine, there would be no clone, Predator or Lo206 racing. i would happily trade clones for a purpose built racing engine. but there is hardly anyone to race. numbers don't lie. the predator the classes are huge compared to the clones. its pure economics.
 
Yeah, if the person sends off their engine. It's way cheaper to learn how to do your own work. IDK, maybe some people don't want to learn how to work on their own stuff. It's a different time than the 70's, 80's & 90's. I've raced my "junk" against plenty of BIG names & won. Don't get me wrong, I've lost against them too. It's fun either way. But, I get more enjoyment when I win. lol

IMHO, working on my own, the 4-cycle is still more expensive to rebuild than the 2-cycle.

I think the disconnect is where the "tuning" differences are between a 2-cycle & 4-cycle.
 
lol most of the big time national level builders get their heads done by one of two shops. and most of them farm out the machine work to Dynocams or Ez-bore. dyno, mill, sunnen hone and a place to put them is more expensive than getting it built by someone who's done their homework.
I love to tinker on motors and i have lots of respect for those who do. Making HP is an artform in my opinion and not everyone has the talent for the arts. I can build and play the guitar but i wouldn't enter a contest against Billy gibbons and Jimmy Page.
 
phantomkartracer said:
With respect,

LOL!!!! $500 to rebuild a KT??? I love it when this is thrown out there. If you take care of the 2-cycle, you usually only replace the ring & sometimes a piston.

Of course it will depend on who your engine builder is and what "THEY" want you to replace. More parts = more time & that = more money.

Brian #89
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Ya know i been pushing this every since they came upwith small block big block bull crap.but local engine builders push the 2-strokes away man.its open class for a reason.ya ever see open class figure 8 or open oval they runeverything as long as its safe and has a carburetor.small block open and big block open and stock appearing and rwyb.🤷🏻‍♂️the fast sa guys run small block and win and they run rwyb and win.maybe on dawgwoods track or a 1/5 mile.but these bullrings anyone can win em 2-stroke,small block.traction and corner speed.
 
Bradley71 said:
Ya know i been pushing this every since they came upwith small block big block bull crap.but local engine builders push the 2-strokes away man.its open class for a reason.ya ever see open class figure 8 or open oval they runeverything as long as its safe and has a carburetor.small block open and big block open and stock appearing and rwyb.🤷🏻‍♂️the fast sa guys run small block and win and they run rwyb and win.maybe on dawgwoods track or a 1/5 mile.but these bullrings anyone can win em 2-stroke,small block.traction and corner speed.
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Rules are tiresome.thats why we normally choose a open class,to get away from the bs rules.anyway 2-strokes are better.cheaper easier to work on and ya dont have to spend 50$ a month just changing the oil.it all comes back to parts dealers and engine builders once again pushing people out of racing,away from fun bc money over a good time anyday to them.people are passionate about harleys,im passionate about 2-cycles.the end.i wish they would come back to motogp id watch every race.
 
what 2 stroke with pipe and jackshaft is cheaper than what 4 stroke? what are you comparing? every time i look at everything i need to run a 2 stroke i find the 4 stroke is far less. and there is more competition running 4 cycle as well. if a Yamaha was the same price as a clone with longer race intervals between rebuilds and cheaper rebuilds everyone would be racing them.
 
You can buy used KT100s for $300, and with a well taken care 2 cycle you will only need to rebuild the top end (piston, pin and cage). Simple enough to do at home. $500? I have Buller build my stroker Sudam, and a KT100 doesn't get close to that unless you rebuild the bottom end. you rarely do that on a small 2 cycle, and rods last forever unless you don't take care of them properly. We road race them, 45 min races, and they hold together at higher speeds for longer time without frequent rebuilds. Added to that on asphalt a clone can't even run with a stock KT100. On dirt ovals is a different story, but a clone needs to be rebuilt more frequently and a rebuild from a top 4 cycle builder is way more expensive than most 2 stroke rebuilts even if parts are cheaper.
 
Ive been racing for somewhere around 20 years. You go to ovals...4 strokes (fart knockers we call them). If there are dudes that really know how to use the 2 strokes and drive them, they prevail with them.

You go to sprints, 2 cycle, mainly tag and shifter. You go to enduro, 2 cycle.

Clear as day, 2 cycle is the way to go fast!!
 
A lot of screaming abot comparing yamaha cost to Clone/predator cost. Dont forget a KT is typically raced in stock form. For someone to buy a $150 motor and take it to a builder for another $500 to still race it in a stock class and still only make 6 or 7 horsepower is insanity to me.

I bought a predator for $185 and threw it on an ole dirt kart and do pretty dang good with it. If I scatter it...oh well...I'll go buy another used whatever from the classified section.

Same goes for some $300 Yamahas. Ive threw one on before and ran second with it at an enduro race.

Its funny to me how 95% of karters MUST have the most horsepower. The secret simply isnt in your motor.
 
Komet99 said:
A lot of screaming abot comparing yamaha cost to Clone/predator cost. Dont forget a KT is typically raced in stock form. For someone to buy a $150 motor and take it to a builder for another $500 to still race it in a stock class and still only make 6 or 7 horsepower is insanity to me.

I bought a predator for $185 and threw it on an ole dirt kart and do pretty dang good with it. If I scatter it...oh well...I'll go buy another used whatever from the classified section.

Same goes for some $300 Yamahas. Ive threw one on before and ran second with it at an enduro race.

Its funny to me how 95% of karters MUST have the most horsepower. The secret simply isnt in your motor.
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This is very true about hp.
 
Do I have some nice secrets and coatings and locating pins and polished this and that and the best stuff in my motor? \

ABSO-F-LUTELY
 
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