A GO TO thread for the new or newer dirt oval racers offering Info & Support

What’s the best way to communicate with your very young driver just starting out, in the sense of getting him to tell you what the kart is doing or what he feels it doing? My son is 6 and this is our first year..and I haven’t raced in years so essentially we are brand new to the game
 
That's easy at 6 just starting out you don't worry about that for now, you prepare him as much as possible on the flags, hand signals & light's, grid, track exit, scales, starts and restarts and how to handle it if he get's lapped, draw a track in the dirt, set down with him with 2 hot wheel cars and show him everything, single file, double file, you preach staying in the groove how important it is as that's where the kart will handle best, you prepare him what to expect the kart will do, and he doesn't have to turn wheel as hard as he would think to turn, and try not to saw on the wheel, He's gonna be a bottom feeder for awhile all new kids are so expect it, make him watch some of the adult classes to learn the groove, walk the track with him point out the groove where he should be in turns and on straight's, point out if he gets high out of the groove in the loose stuff he'll have to pony it up, as there will be no grip like hitting ice, until he's smooth and up to speed how important it is to hold his line while other karts are around him, very unsafe to be all over the place low then jump up high abruptly, you set goals in steps early goals are just have fun, complete every lap , and might even be only get lapped once or twice, then as he improves goal may be just finish on the lead lap, then may be finish on same straight, don't get competitive stupid to quickly and push him to hard, then once he's in the groove and using momentum 80 % or better you start worrying about how to communicate with you what the kart is doing, show him with the hot wheels cars what a push is, what loose is, explain if he does not enter the turn right he will never exit it right either, if he has a handling issue on mid turn to exit first thing he should think of is maybe I didn't enter right, because if he enters to low to straight and tries to stay on throttle it's gonna push at some point, when he's watching others race point out a kart with a push, or a kart that's loose, usually at first whatever they tell you is happening it's just the opposite, they'll say it's loose when in fact it's pushing they put to much wheel in it when it grabs it snaps loose, buy white gloves put bright colored tape on his wheel and watch his hands close, prepare yourself to be patient for awhile and you learn set up and tires, then when he's ready to go fast so will you. Keep asking questions on here you'll get good advice.
Good Luck !!
 
Wanted to put out there that for you newer guy's still learning, feel free to post things here that you have learned that helped you most as it will end up helping others, even if it's already listed it will still give more confidence to those reluctant to try.

I'll add some basic info as a reminder, If handling is off on entry look to the front of the kart adjustments first, If handling is off on exit look to the rear of the kart adjustments first, remember a lot of exit issues are because of entry issues, also remember CROSS is a more fine tune adjustment NOT an adjustment to fix bigger handling issues, there are some rare cases where if your cross is WAY off a cross adjustment only issue may fix the handling while still making most speed.
 
Question relating to Burris 33a’s. I see a lot of guys selling sets of 3 tires without the left front as it lasts a long time. What happens when you have tires with lower duro numbers and the track turns hard? Do you need to get a left front with I higher duro number to match the other 3?
 
Question relating to Burris 33a’s. I see a lot of guys selling sets of 3 tires without the left front as it lasts a long time. What happens when you have tires with lower duro numbers and the track turns hard? Do you need to get a left front with I higher duro number to match the other 3?

I prefer to have the tires (duro and prep) the same on all 4 tires. That way I can better monitor what the kart is doing by reading my tires (temperature, graining/wear, etc.) The exception might be on some chassis where a slightly harder left rear tire is desirable (again, I think that's a band-aid fix,) but some older karts do need the left rear freed up for them to work best.
For the most part, the left front is just along for the ride -- sure, it helps plant the right rear at corner entry, but other than that, it will experience very little wear or heat during it's life cycle. That's why you see guys sharing that corner from set to set -- it saves money.
I prefer to keep my tire sets as honest "sets" of 4. But for cost reasons, not everyone can do that, and it's certainly not necessary. If you are swapping sets and sharing LFs, try to match up the duro and bite as best as you can. If you have to, err to a softer LF rather than harder. Hope that helps.


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🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
A stupid question if I'm allowed! Isn't it true that 8th mile tracks have different turn radiusis or different straight lengths? Wouldn't you want to adjust your rear stagger according to the radius of the turns? Wouldn't stagger be a compromise on a track with long straights and tight turns, or vice versa? And what about turn banking? Wouldn't you want to change your stagger to fit that banking?
 
A stupid question if I'm allowed! Isn't it true that 8th mile tracks have different turn radiusis or different straight lengths? Wouldn't you want to adjust your rear stagger according to the radius of the turns? Wouldn't stagger be a compromise on a track with long straights and tight turns, or vice versa? And what about turn banking? Wouldn't you want to change your stagger to fit that banking?
Up here in Canada and in northern New York I’ve never seen a track that’s the exact same layout. We’ve got everything from paper clip tracks to bull rings. From anything I’ve been told or learned, stagger definitely varies track to track in what works best
 
I prefer to have the tires (duro and prep) the same on all 4 tires. That way I can better monitor what the kart is doing by reading my tires (temperature, graining/wear, etc.) The exception might be on some chassis where a slightly harder left rear tire is desirable (again, I think that's a band-aid fix,) but some older karts do need the left rear freed up for them to work best.
For the most part, the left front is just along for the ride -- sure, it helps plant the right rear at corner entry, but other than that, it will experience very little wear or heat during it's life cycle. That's why you see guys sharing that corner from set to set -- it saves money.
I prefer to keep my tire sets as honest "sets" of 4. But for cost reasons, not everyone can do that, and it's certainly not necessary. If you are swapping sets and sharing LFs, try to match up the duro and bite as best as you can. If you have to, err to a softer LF rather than harder. Hope that helps.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Thanks for the reply. Makes a lot of sense but I was always curious. I’m going to stick to sets of 3 then with a couple variations for the left front to match them up where needed
 
Thanks for the reply. Makes a lot of sense but I was always curious. I’m going to stick to sets of 3 then with a couple variations for the left front to match them up where needed
That's what I do softer, medium, harder LF's total of 6 to go along with like 16 sets of 3 Burris 33's, Don't forget if the LF varies to much on the hard side you can just wipe it more according to help compensate some. Or even if you don't need any prep on the other 3 wipe the LF in that case.
 
A stupid question if I'm allowed! Isn't it true that 8th mile tracks have different turn radiusis or different straight lengths? Wouldn't you want to adjust your rear stagger according to the radius of the turns? Wouldn't stagger be a compromise on a track with long straights and tight turns, or vice versa? And what about turn banking? Wouldn't you want to change your stagger to fit that banking?
Of course you always want staggers set according to each track, the point you refuse to acknowledge is at 1/8th mile or smaller, yes they vary but there is not enough total distance to vary a lot, your not going to find 2 different 1/8th mile oval dirt tracks where the 1 has straight's twice as long as the other, as NO one builds a dirt oval track with 2 straight drag strips all but touching with real hard paper clip sharp turn, Earl has pointed out to you numerous time If you look down from above on smaller dirt oval tracks there just that oval, with no actual straight's, that's why the reference staggers by track size in this thread that show with in a quarter inch stay accurate. which is as accurate or more accurate than using any spread sheet where guy's are guessing on the measurements.
 
After reading every page I feel like I need to ask questions I hope have answers without needing specialized tools to accomplish.
A lot of talk is about AFTER setup is done but can hardly find much on the actual setup of the kart.
Soooooo, with businesses closed and us having to do this on our own I'll ask (in a VERY generalized way) on how to setup the major parts that are used for adjustment.
The only 1 I saw mentioned was setting up toe with a 4ft level or string etc...….since I don't have any of the fancy tools, can I setup the other major parts with around the house stuff?
Seat mounting? Camber? Castor? Front/Rear Stagger? Cross? etc.
I KNOW it changes by chassis/track/tire and so on but I saw someone post that a "general" toe would be 1/8" outward to start. That's perfect! I can start there! And maybe that's what I'm looking for is a rough estimate of what something should be and how to get it close to start.
I feel this is a super loaded request and if so I apologize, I'm just stuck here as our kart shop is closed and a racing season starting in a couple weeks with a kart not scaled....and so far I only know how to roughly set the toe haha.
 
After reading every page I feel like I need to ask questions I hope have answers without needing specialized tools to accomplish.
A lot of talk is about AFTER setup is done but can hardly find much on the actual setup of the kart.
Soooooo, with businesses closed and us having to do this on our own I'll ask (in a VERY generalized way) on how to setup the major parts that are used for adjustment.
The only 1 I saw mentioned was setting up toe with a 4ft level or string etc...….since I don't have any of the fancy tools, can I setup the other major parts with around the house stuff?
Seat mounting? Camber? Castor? Front/Rear Stagger? Cross? etc.
I KNOW it changes by chassis/track/tire and so on but I saw someone post that a "general" toe would be 1/8" outward to start. That's perfect! I can start there! And maybe that's what I'm looking for is a rough estimate of what something should be and how to get it close to start.
I feel this is a super loaded request and if so I apologize, I'm just stuck here as our kart shop is closed and a racing season starting in a couple weeks with a kart not scaled....and so far I only know how to roughly set the toe haha.
First what chassis do you have make and model & year is the break rotor on the left side ?
 
First what chassis do you have make and model & year is the break rotor on the left side ?
'05 Rage Dagger and yes
I've gotten baseline numbers from Jeff and besides caster and toe, I'm not entirely sure how to "set" or "setup" the rest of the chassis. I'll admit chassis setup was never my thing haha and if it's more than I can achieve I'll basically just do what I can and have an experimental year lol.
I do, however, have Mike McCarty's "Understanding Chassis Theory and Dynamics" book that I've been reading and if there's areas in there that would guide me better than explaining on here let me know. I'm only about 1/3 through it and already pulling my hair out lol
 
You can get a pretty close set-up using a 4' level, tape measure, and inclinometer.
Caster and camber can be set with the inclinometer. Just make sure that your tires are at race pressure, stagger already set, and chassis is setting level when you check things (usually done on scales.
You can rough the seat in by placing the back of the seat flush with the front edge of the rear axle, and the top of the seat 8 3/4" off the top off the axle. RR seat strut at 3 1/2" off of the motor rail. Bottom of seat level, or slightly above, the bottom of the chassis frame rails.
That'll get you in the ball park.
 
'05 Rage Dagger and yes
I've gotten baseline numbers from Jeff and besides caster and toe, I'm not entirely sure how to "set" or "setup" the rest of the chassis. I'll admit chassis setup was never my thing haha and if it's more than I can achieve I'll basically just do what I can and have an experimental year lol.
I do, however, have Mike McCarty's "Understanding Chassis Theory and Dynamics" book that I've been reading and if there's areas in there that would guide me better than explaining on here let me know. I'm only about 1/3 through it and already pulling my hair out lol
Do you know how much weight if any you'll need to put on to make Min weight ? which class and weight do you plan on racing ?
Are you good on the process of staggering your tires ?
 
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Do you know how much weight if any you'll need to put on to make Min weight ? which class and weight do you plan on racing ?
Are you good on the process of staggering your tires ?
No weight added - 360# I should be just a tad over so lucky me haha
Stock predator with a couple extra add-ons to help performance
Hoosier D-20's
RF - 11.5x9.0-6 @ 36"
RR - 11.5x9.0-6 @ 37"
LF - 11.0x5.5-6 @ 34-1/2"
LR - 11.0x6.5-6 @ 35-3/8"
Staggering was done by tire guy

Note: These tire sizes are mandated by rules for this class
 
No weight added - 360# I should be just a tad over so lucky me haha
Stock predator with a couple extra add-ons to help performance
Hoosier D-20's
RF - 11.5x9.0-6 @ 36"
RR - 11.5x9.0-6 @ 37"
LF - 11.0x5.5-6 @ 34-1/2"
LR - 11.0x6.5-6 @ 35-3/8"
Staggering was done by tire guy

Note: These tire sizes are mandated by rules for this class
So track is smaller with tight turns, 1/8 th mile or smaller ? should be to need 1 5/8 " rear stagger, you'll have to confirm there are still the same, actually not lucky you as far as weight it's better to have to add some easier to get your numbers, as far as seat location with wheels and tires off I'd set it on a level table set the seat bottom on a piece of cardboard 1/8" thick, put front seat notch 1/4" from steering post ( make sure that puts seat far enough front so rear top is not back past the rear axle ) and center 1/4" left of post, rear of seat with seat spline ( center ) 3/4 " left of break rotor and top rear of seat back 9 " off top of the axle, Set rear hub spacing by putting tires on the kart RR should be 3/16 " from inside edge of wheel to cassette hanger, and LR 3/4' to 7/8" from inside edge of wheel to cassette hanger, cambers are going to be tough to confirm without a gauge but while on flat surface RF outside edge should be pitched up some lean in towards the frame, the LF the inside edge of the tire should be pitched up top of tire leaning out away from the frame, the RF should appear to have more pitch than the LF.
 
Thanks so much for the help!! It's a 1/5 mile track as they demoed the old small layout and expanded this year so they could run micros.
I know it's a tall order asking setup over the intranets lol but appreciate what help can be sent. I'll get to working on the kart this weekend :)
 
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