A GO TO thread for the new or newer dirt oval racers offering Info & Support

2019 Ultramax Rival. I'm not having any handling issues per say. Generally I'm able to keep up with the leaders. Even won a few features. I race good but struggle in qualifying. I haven't quite figured out the prep game for a few laps. I asked about camber more out of curiosity. Like Flattop1 said, always looking for another tenth or 2. Thank you for taking the time to reply
 

kartracer_3

Member
LF Camber description from the smart guy's, Going more positive on LF camber will turn the kart in quicker and loosen the chassis when exiting the corner middle out, and will also magnify the effects of LF caster. Going more negative on the LF camber reduces the pull to the left, and will tighten the chassis when exiting the corner middle out, and reduces the effects of LF caster.
Excessive LF camber is indicated when the kart becomes to loose exiting the corner sever laps into the run, Insufficient LF camber is indicated when the kart is tight from the middle out of corners. The kart will simply be slow off the corners.

RF camber going more negative on the RF will magnify the effects of RF caster, making the kart turn in quicker and loosen the chassis throughout the corner. Negative RF camber keeps the RF sidewall from rolling under when weight is transferred to it durning cornering, and frees the kart up throughout the corner. Excessive negative RF camber can result in a push late in the run due to overheating on the inside of the RF causing the tire to give up. Tires do have designed operating temp ranges, which once exceeded will cause the chassis to become extremely loose.
Going more positive RF camber reduces the effects of RF caster, will slow the kart turn in and tighten the chassis.
Thank you very much.
 
Most everything I read has front stagger set at 1.5”. I understand that chassis are designed around 34” right side tires and the 1.5” stagger is for rake (ideally washers are evenly spaced?) What if you’re maxed out on washers (1 on bottom left and 2 on top right spindle) to achieve desired cross? Would you want to increase front stagger to adjust for rake?
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
No , you would be raising the chassis .
You still have 3 washers too go .
Is front stagger used for rake ?
In my way of thinking excessive front stagger will hinder weight transfer .
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Most everything I read has front stagger set at 1.5”. I understand that chassis are designed around 34” right side tires and the 1.5” stagger is for rake (ideally washers are evenly spaced?) What if you’re maxed out on washers (1 on bottom left and 2 on top right spindle) to achieve desired cross? Would you want to increase front stagger to adjust for rake?
Confirmation on your washers what your saying, on your RF you only have 1 washer left on the bottom and only 2 left on the top ? OR when you refer left you mean left side of the kart ?
 
Confirmation on your washers what your saying, on your RF you only have 1 washer left on the bottom and only 2 left on the top ? OR when you refer left you mean left side of the kart ?
On the RF spindle there are 2 washers on top and 5 on the bottom. On the LF spindle there are 6 washers on top and 1 on the bottom.
 
The scenario I’m speaking of is not my kart. A fellow racer bounced the idea off me and is trying this on his kart. It’s a Phantom Deuce. He’s somewhere in the 45 nose 58 left 62 cross range running 1.25” rear stagger. I know the cross will sound low but he’s trying to free it up. He’s fast but regardless of track conditions he always talks about being tight.
 
The scenario I’m speaking of is not my kart. A fellow racer bounced the idea off me and is trying this on his kart. It’s a Phantom Deuce. He’s somewhere in the 45 nose 58 left 62 cross range running 1.25” rear stagger. I know the cross will sound low but he’s trying to free it up. He’s fast but regardless of track conditions he always talks about being tight.
not a pro by no means, but is he sure its tight, or is that he doesn't have enough bite in tires? everything ive been told about that chassis, you need way more bite but im probably wrong!
 

jaymancds

Premium User
The scenario I’m speaking of is not my kart. A fellow racer bounced the idea off me and is trying this on his kart. It’s a Phantom Deuce. He’s somewhere in the 45 nose 58 left 62 cross range running 1.25” rear stagger. I know the cross will sound low but he’s trying to free it up. He’s fast but regardless of track conditions he always talks about being tight.
Sounds to me like he carries too much speed on entry so he can make the exit and calls it "Tight" when really its a push because hes driving it wrong.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
On the RF spindle there are 2 washers on top and 5 on the bottom. On the LF spindle there are 6 washers on top and 1 on the bottom.
I'd be evening up the washers more on the LF and the RF and you should still be able to keep 62 cross, numbers aren't that bad he needs BITE in his tires.
 

Randy22

New member
A prep man with good knowledge of your track is a plus. Provide all the info you can, track name, location, type of tires ran there, and if you can find out from people that run there a lot what the tires need to Duro from worst to best there.
What would be a good starting prep for maxxis EL tires on a GA red clay track with 2 lanes of grip.
 

Randy22

New member
Well thats the thing. It the cochran motor speedway track in cochran ga they run cars on it but guys is building a smaller track but same track
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Well thats the thing. It the cochran motor speedway track in cochran ga they run cars on it but guys is building a smaller track but same track
Earl could still help . Georgia red dirt is different then Iowa creek bottom or Pennsylvania Shale dirt .
 

madweazl

Member
During the off season here in northern VA, I'm planning on putting something together to go racing in the spring. Zero experience in karts so it has been a bit overwhelming. I've made my way through all of the posts and certainly appreciate all of the comments and questions that have been left.

When it comes to initial setup, it looks like I should start with the chassis manufactures baseline and go from there but where is, there? It looks like tire selection/prep provides the 80% solution based on comments in this thread but what next? Is there a cascading order of adjustments that have a more profound effect than the next in line (i.e. camber before, caster, before cross etc.)?

Are there basic characteristics to certain tire manufacturers that make them better suited to certain surfaces? Is Maxxis better in XX conditions where Vegas or Burris are better suited for XX?

I understand toe, camber, caster but what exactly is cross?

I saw VCG mentioned in an earlier post and it was a new term; is this different than roll center? If so, what differentiates the two?
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Vcg = vertical center of gravity .
Roll center is pretty much set by chassis design and in part ride hieght .
Cross = Left rear and rt frt weight %
Camber first and cross last . Toe set and forget , check often .
Tires , yes some are more suited to different conditions .
Prep helps them meet different conditions .
Tires may be dictated by the track or series' .
 

jaymancds

Premium User
During the off season here in northern VA, I'm planning on putting something together to go racing in the spring. Zero experience in karts so it has been a bit overwhelming. I've made my way through all of the posts and certainly appreciate all of the comments and questions that have been left.

When it comes to initial setup, it looks like I should start with the chassis manufactures baseline and go from there but where is, there? It looks like tire selection/prep provides the 80% solution based on comments in this thread but what next? Is there a cascading order of adjustments that have a more profound effect than the next in line (i.e. camber before, caster, before cross etc.)?

Are there basic characteristics to certain tire manufacturers that make them better suited to certain surfaces? Is Maxxis better in XX conditions where Vegas or Burris are better suited for XX?

I understand toe, camber, caster but what exactly is cross?

I saw VCG mentioned in an earlier post and it was a new term; is this different than roll center? If so, what differentiates the two?
First off, welcome to the forum. This place is a great resource

Your "There" setup will typically have set of numbers for weights, cambers, casters, toe, etc. Don't let these numbers overwhelm you. You can, and you will, understand them with great understanding. You're doing a good thing by doing a lot of reading. At some point, it will all click and you will understand it. Even if you don't understand all of it, you have this forum as a resource.

Your weights will typically be recommended by your overall weight. You will have a left side weight percentage, a nose weight percentage, and a cross weight percentage. Cross weight is the measurement for the percentage of weight on the left rear and the right front divided by the total.
Example: Left rear 160lbs, Right front 100lbs, total weight 400.
160+100=260
260/400=.065
.065=65% cross

As I am sure you have read, cross is more of a fine tuning adjustment, but in many cases might be the fastest band-aid for quick adjustments. For me, while at the track, cross is my go to adjustment simply because it is easy to measure what my change is doing without needing my scales. Also remember that the scales dont win races. The scale is just an indicator of what your kart is doing, if you make a change and it works, but the scale numbers seem confusing, don't worry about it. Tune for what you need the kart to do and let the scales be a tool to repeat what you felt.

Tires are a HUGE deal. Bad tires on a good kart will get beat by good tires on a bad kart almost every time. Find someone at your local track, who runs up front, and see if they will help you get onto a good tire prepping program. With that said, there are several tire gurus on here that can get you going in the right direction. Again, these guys are really good, but it may not do quite what you are looking for, and that is ok, and they will continue to help even if you struggle a little bit.
 

madweazl

Member
Vcg = vertical center of gravity .
Roll center is pretty much set by chassis design and in part ride hieght .
Cross = Left rear and rt frt weight %
Camber first and cross last . Toe set and forget , check often .
Tires , yes some are more suited to different conditions .
Prep helps them meet different conditions .
Tires may be dictated by the track or series' .

Can you expand on what VCG actually is?
 

Termite52

Member
This thread is to point out somethings to new or newer racers, or guy's that may be on there 3 rd year or so but not making any or very little progress. Maybe we can get the basic's on one thread instead of searching over 6 different forums, and also where guy's that are reluctant to ask questions now may do so here, The intent of this thread is simple to make it easier for the newer guy's make some progress and hopefully save some frustrations and getting quicker result's on the track. I will post some things I see guy's doing wrong or starting out with the wrong approach, and some basic info while WELCOME all the experienced guy's to chime in as well, things you may have learned over the years. I will be keeping this thread up-dated daily and have help info to add as not to give to much at one time all with the intent of keeping it direct and simple.

Somethings I see guy's starting out doing that get's them off on the wrong foot & put's a bad taste in there mouth to start.

Buying on Impulse not going to a track first & not doing there homework more, usually leads to over paying used or new.

Not being aware of how much time and effort It takes to get up to speed, Thinking they can buy speed and this applies more to Dad's starting there kid's, ALL kids will excel at different rates does not matter how well they do with a yard kart, 4 wheeler, or mini bike.

Start Racing on totally JUNK tires and Kart not being scaled.

Start racing with out a tach, even if it's just a cheap one only giving RPM that's fine but use one.

Unwilling to ask for any help, now with that being said it's tough to sort out the guy's that know what there talking about and ones that are as clueless as you are, one way is ask the FAST guy's first they didn't just fall into being fast they have some knowledge. A sign of someone not knowing what there talking about, If you ask more questions than a quick in general and they do not ask any details before answering.

And when they do ask questions not giving enough details & asking for enough details in return.

Understanding there are VERY few in generals in karting that always stay the same. Just because it works at one track does not mean it works across the board.

This is just a few to get the thread started, Experienced guy's please feel free to chime in, however If you post something that sounds little confusing please do not take offense to clarification, That goes both ways IF I post something that sounds off and needs clarification by all MEANS ask for it.
What is the largest size engine cc size wise that can be run in open class .
 
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