A GO TO thread for the new or newer dirt oval racers offering Info & Support

gcashwell

Member
Most of this thread has been about getting the setup right. My question is, how do I make the best of the race when the kart isn’t right? How do I adjust for a loose condition or a push?
 
Most of this thread has been about getting the setup right. My question is, how do I make the best of the race when the kart isn’t right? How do I adjust for a loose condition or a push?
Good question. I tell my driver(s) to make the best of what they've got to work with.

Loose: Lean back in the seat, arc the corners and run high(er) on the straights to make more of a circle out of the track, smoother driving.

Push: Pull yourself forward in the seat, arc the corners more, get your elbows up and drive the thing.

You'd be surprised how much a little body english can affect the handling and dynamic weight of a kart. (try it on a scale sometime for an eye opener) This is why we emphasize that your driver is comfortable and doesn't lean or move around in the seat at all on the track. We spend hours on scales to find that perfect set-up and numbers. You can all but toss that out the window if the driver is leaning or moving around in the seat.

Also, a little burp of the throttle at the right moment can help get the car to settle on the right front harder. Don't be jabbing the brake to "set" the car -- you're not driving a dirt latemodel or sprint car nor do you have that sort of horsepower.

Protect the bottom and wish you had gotten the set-up right before resorting to changing your driving style or line. :)
Obviously, if the car is really bad off, you weren't in the ballpark on set-up to begin with, and you're off the pace anyhow. At that point, you're best to pull off the track and let the competitive racers enjoy their race without you messing it up for them.
 

gcashwell

Member
One more question.

My local track is taking a HARD tire right now. I don’t have any that are hard enough and I’m not going to get any that are any time soon. What is my best option to be competitive?
 
One more question.

My local track is taking a HARD tire right now. I don’t have any that are hard enough and I’m not going to get any that are any time soon. What is my best option to be competitive?
Why are your tires not hard enough? Do these tires have a bunch of prep in them or are they just a soft tire? I have set mine out in the sun for a long time to get my tires to harden up when I had them to soft. You may be able to get them hard enoguh by doing that and possibly use a conditioner after that during the week to keep the bite in them or whatver you do to prep tires to keep a bite in them.
 

gcashwell

Member
Why are your tires not hard enough? Do these tires have a bunch of prep in them or are they just a soft tire? I have set mine out in the sun for a long time to get my tires to harden up when I had them to soft. You may be able to get them hard enoguh by doing that and possibly use a conditioner after that during the week to keep the bite in them or whatver you do to prep tires to keep a bite in them.
We are a Burris 33 only track. The guys that are winning are running crazy stuff like “new” 2014s.
The track doesn’t have any bite, but you also can’t get a knife to stick into the surface at all.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
We are a Burris 33 only track. The guys that are winning are running crazy stuff like “new” 2014s.
The track doesn’t have any bite, but you also can’t get a knife to stick into the surface at all.
There not winning only because there 2014s Don't get hung up thinking that's the only date code that will work, 2017, 2018, 2019 that weren't prepped at all or much would work as well. How thick is the rubber on your tires that are to soft ? Have they been prepped a lot ? If so with what ?
 

gcashwell

Member
There not winning only because there 2014s Don't get hung up thinking that's the only date code that will work, 2017, 2018, 2019 that weren't prepped at all or much would work as well. How thick is the rubber on your tires that are to soft ? Have they been prepped a lot ? If so with what ?
Mine a pretty thick. I have some that have been prepped pretty hard. I have a couple other sets that have only been wiped with “gentle” bite preps a couple of times. I only run my tires once a month or so. I have plenty of 2019-2020 tires.
The hardest mine Duro is 60.
We are all running round cut tires.

These guys with the old tires are getting them to duro at 65.
I don’t have the knowledge to figure out what to do.
 
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racing promotor

Moderator
Mine a pretty thick. I have some that have been prepped pretty hard. I have a couple other sets that have only been wiped with “gentle” bite preps a couple of times. I only run my tires once a month or so. I have plenty of 2019-2020 tires.
The hardest mine Duro is 60.
We are all running round cut tires.

These guys with the old tires are getting them to duro at 65.
I don’t have the knowledge to figure out what to do.
Take your least prepped ever set of 2019 hopefully there pretty thick yet, refinish them and run them as much as possible keep heat cycling them, store them in as warm of place as you can through the week, while you know there still to soft increase air pressure as much as track will allow without sliding.
 

gcashwell

Member
Take your least prepped ever set of 2019 hopefully there pretty thick yet, refinish them and run them as much as possible keep heat cycling them, store them in as warm of place as you can through the week, while you know there still to soft increase air pressure as much as track will allow without sliding.
Yes sir! Thanks!
 

thebigo

Member
I think this may be toooooo long for most of the readers.
We just started out at the end of last season with my 15 yo grandson rookie and a 05 Tempest in J3 purple plate. This forum have been a major reason for running in the top 6, more like P4 to P6. Once he made the podium because the front runners got tangled up. Technology is way advanced today than when I raced full size stock cars 50 yrs ago. So I try to find the top runners at the track and pick their brain. The problem is they are way too busy and yet help out as much as they can. I feel I'm a major bother interfering with their work. So I refrain from asking questions during the race program. Then, I spend a lot of time reading awesome articles like this to get as much out of it as I can.
TIRES are a mystery to me right now. The experience you guys have is a great tool for us beginners, but most of it is new. I read thicker/thinner tire, where do you measure it and size is good/bad. I have no tire rolling machine to prep tires inside. The preps mentioned on this forum have names versus colors which is used at our track. When I refer to some of the names mentioned here, I get it's not the same. Just blue, green purple and super aggressive. They suggest blue (looks like windshield washer fluid). Don't know when to use single wipe or more or none, how much and when. I try to watch them when they're doing it but it could be on a different set for later or immediate race. There's so much knowledge on this forum, I have a hard time absorbing all that is said about tires. I can relate to setup terminology from my old days of racing. I will not buy a new set of tires, Burris 33a at our track because I cannot do what's required due to lack of equipment or experience. So I try to locate decent tires from the top runners that are good enough for us. I located a set and on a couple the cord is showing thru.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
A new set can do wonders . The wear dots are where you check the thickness .
with the cord showing personally i would pass .
over preping is worse then under preping .
keep it simple . one brand of prep and prep advice from that supplier .
 
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thebigo

Member
The used tires ?
What prep do you have ?
You in the north east ?
Current tires are 33a about 55 duro, I'm told good duro for the track. LR showing white cords in three places and RF cord not thru but I can see the lines under the rubber.
Prep is blue (like windshield washer), manufacturer unknown. I got it from driver no longer racing karts.
I'm in southern ontario, Canada.
 

Mrdavid78

Member
I have a setup question more less. My kart hopes terrible in only 2 of the 4 turns why ?? It starts about 4or5 laps into a race, the tire pressures havent increased. I thought it was the tp rising but they dont. This has really stumped myself and my teammate and crew guy. Im on Burris 33s, 1/10th mile, dirt. It never does it in a heat race only features. 🤷
 

racing promotor

Moderator
I have a setup question more less. My kart hopes terrible in only 2 of the 4 turns why ?? It starts about 4or5 laps into a race, the tire pressures havent increased. I thought it was the tp rising but they dont. This has really stumped myself and my teammate and crew guy. Im on Burris 33s, 1/10th mile, dirt. It never does it in a heat race only features. 🤷
Sounds like maybe tires are to soft and the turns it hops in have more grip, are you running same tires heats and features ? are the 2 turns on same end of the track ? or if opposite is it hoping both on entry or exit ?
 

Mrdavid78

Member
Sounds like maybe tires are to soft and the turns it hops in have more grip, are you running same tires heats and features ? are the 2 turns on same end of the track ? or if opposite is it hoping both on entry or exit ?
Running the same tires for heat and feature, same 2 turns (1 and2) it starts hoping at end of turn 1 and cont threw the exit of 2.
 
I think this may be toooooo long for most of the readers.
We just started out at the end of last season with my 15 yo grandson rookie and a 05 Tempest in J3 purple plate. This forum have been a major reason for running in the top 6, more like P4 to P6. Once he made the podium because the front runners got tangled up. Technology is way advanced today than when I raced full size stock cars 50 yrs ago. So I try to find the top runners at the track and pick their brain. The problem is they are way too busy and yet help out as much as they can. I feel I'm a major bother interfering with their work. So I refrain from asking questions during the race program. Then, I spend a lot of time reading awesome articles like this to get as much out of it as I can.
TIRES are a mystery to me right now. The experience you guys have is a great tool for us beginners, but most of it is new. I read thicker/thinner tire, where do you measure it and size is good/bad. I have no tire rolling machine to prep tires inside. The preps mentioned on this forum have names versus colors which is used at our track. When I refer to some of the names mentioned here, I get it's not the same. Just blue, green purple and super aggressive. They suggest blue (looks like windshield washer fluid). Don't know when to use single wipe or more or none, how much and when. I try to watch them when they're doing it but it could be on a different set for later or immediate race. There's so much knowledge on this forum, I have a hard time absorbing all that is said about tires. I can relate to setup terminology from my old days of racing. I will not buy a new set of tires, Burris 33a at our track because I cannot do what's required due to lack of equipment or experience. So I try to locate decent tires from the top runners that are good enough for us. I located a set and on a couple the cord is showing thru.
Tires remain a mystery to us as well. LOL. We run fairly well most nights and struggle other nights. I too did not like to interfere with fellow racers during the event. The strategy I implored was to talk with fellow racers after the race night or throughout the week about what worked the previous week. The knowledge we received from these conversations were a game changer for our program. We now have a small network that we can share info with at the track as well. It seems to be easier to find someone that competes in a different class.

As for tires with cords, that typically doesn't bother me if it's just one spot and the wear dots still show life. I refer to it as a "high cord" and it typically happens on the LR first.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Running the same tires for heat and feature, same 2 turns (1 and2) it starts hoping at end of turn 1 and cont threw the exit of 2.
Sounds like tires tick to soft, Increase air by 1 lb in all 4 tires for feature see if it takes longer to start hoping than now, if so that's the problem.
IF it stays the same increase split only add 1 lb to the rights and see if it takes longer to start hoping, If so it's set up.
 
Mine a pretty thick. I have some that have been prepped pretty hard. I have a couple other sets that have only been wiped with “gentle” bite preps a couple of times.
The hardest mine Duro is 60.
These guys with the old tires are getting them to duro at 65.
Not all durometer readings are apples to apples. Are you seeing signs that your tires are too soft?
RP had good advise for you about cycling the tires as much as you can by running them or storing them in a place that gets hot.
Are the guys with the harder tires winning and are they running thick or thin rubber?
You might be surprised with the hardness on the aggressively prepped tires if they have sat for awhile. While these may duro the same hardness as a light or no prep tire they will lack grip.
 
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