Priceracin04
Member
Thanks for the reply.
Advantages of running a JR TRITON
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alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
not meaning to question your numbers, you seem to know more about this than most, but I wonder, what are the more important numbers; corner weights, or seat position? I'm wondering what the chances are of getting both to your specification?
From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
Al, with the correct seat placement, percentages will be close. If the seat was set way of the correct location it would be very difficult to get the correct percentages. So percentages are what you want. But that will be very hard to achieve without the correct, or close to correct, seat location.
BIG Pipe 17
New member
58.5 left is two much left for a 5 foot 113 # driver . 57% left and u be rolling baby
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
that doesn't answer my question, and the question was to Ltg. "Very difficult"; doesn't sound like it's impossible.
From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
rebsfan4
Member
I'm not Todd and I highly suspect you will not believe me anyway, BUT seat mounting and seat location will be the single most critical part of the set up. Without it being correct you will never be able to achieve what it is your are curious of. At the very least it will be EXTREMELY difficult. However, if the seat is mounted and located properly AND you are one who focuses on corner weights, then it is absolutely possible to get both to your specifications.
rebsfan4
Member
Small clarification...........
You can actually have the seat in the desired location and have the corner weights to your specification, but still have the seat mounted improperly. Meaning you can have it in a bound up position. If this happens, the kart will not work properly (Flex) and it can be quite confusing and mind boggling for a new comer.
You can actually have the seat in the desired location and have the corner weights to your specification, but still have the seat mounted improperly. Meaning you can have it in a bound up position. If this happens, the kart will not work properly (Flex) and it can be quite confusing and mind boggling for a new comer.
First, I ignore corner weights because if the percentages are correct the corner weights have to be also.
In the question seat position or percentages, over 95% of the people with whom I've worked over the lat 12 years have been able to get both. On the rare occasion in which we can't get both we typically don't prefer one over the other, we will deviate slightly from both to end up with the best compromise.
Todd
www.dynamicsofspeed.com
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
thank you for your clarification on seat position versus corner weights.
That's interesting that you "ignore corner weights". I've always had this idea that you adjusted the corner weights until you got the percentages you wanted. Maybe you meant it doesn't make any difference what the corner weights are as long as the percentages are right. And of course, if the percentages are right, the corners will be what they are.
From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
Al,
Maybe describing our scale systems might help you understand why we use just the percents.
On the scales that racers use it gives us of course all four corner wieghts but also it gives us Nose%, Left%, Cross%, Rear%, Right%, & Off Axis%.
The scales normally display all four corner weights and a total weight and then have "quick" buttons for a seperate diplay to show the most commonly looked at percents which are Nose%, Left% & Cross% (sometimes called Wedge%).
When we scale we never look at the corner weights, except to just weigh the driver on each scale before we start to get his weight and then make sure all the pads read the same. We start with Nose and Left % and nomally as long as the seat has been mounted correctly these are within a half % on the nose and a % on the Left. If they are off more than that, then the seat is rechecked for correctness. Then it's just adding ballast evenly to the seat, normally laying it on the driver at the edge of their seat as close to the point of mounting as possible that way it can be fine tuned sliding them to the front and rear and different amounts to keep the percents in line until the total minimum kart weight for class is reached. Moving weight along the seat from North to South to fine tune Nose and Left to Right for Left. If their are multiple weight classes, this is done for each one and weights marked and notes taken as to what weights are needed to be added and taken away between classes.
Once the Nose% and Left% are in the kart Cross% is set using the spindle washers. Again, we haven't paid attention to corner weights this whole time, or had to figure the percents. I hope this helps to shed some light onto why we don't use individual wheel weights.
Your spreadsheet would definately be useful to someone whom hasn't progressed to or have the access of a racing scale system. While they would have to enter wheel weights, those atual numbers still wouldn't be what they were shooting for while setting up. If the were trying to add weight to a specific wheel, they would go crazy. You can't place ballast on a kart and all that weight go to a certain wheel.
Now, this isn't eveything done in scaling, we still check toe, camber, ect. But a basic outline of the flow to arrive at the given percentages.
The reason I ignore corner weights is that they are mathematically identical to the percentages and total. For any given set of corner weights, there is one and only one set of percentages that can be calculated. The reverse is true as well. We could use corner weights instead of percentages and achieve exactly the same results. We don't because the percentages scale from light to medium to heavy, etc. whereas the corner weights would be weight class specific and there's no gain in performance for the extra aggravation in dealing with the numbers.
Todd
www.dynamicsofspeed.com
karts11and4KBP
New member
Kmoody. When checking scales DO NOT stand each scale seperately. Stack them on top of each other and zero them. Then apply a known weight. They should all read the same. The problem with kart scales is they don't display all 3 digits that they actually measure to. Movement of your feet legs and body affect the reading. By stacking them you get a much better reading. If you stand on them you won't notice a 1/2 lb either way but when stacked you will see it.
The pads have to then be placed at each corner and re-zeroed out, making that task a total waste of time.
I guess I'm lucky in that my son can stand still enough to weigh him accurately the 10th of a pound on each pad. The main thing I'm checking for is him gaining or losing weight so I know what I have to do to total weight.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
I am playing with that concept on my weight spreadsheet and no matter what numbers I put in I keep getting; 50% front and 50% left. If the LF matches the RR and the RF matches the LR it always ends up with those 2 percentages no matter what weights I put in. For instance; LF 80 / RF 100...LR 100 / RR 80. What, if anything, am I doing wrong?
From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
You're doing nothing wrong. It's not desirable on an oval
flattop1
Dawg 89
I like this, will try it tomorrow.