Akra official announcement

Ric,

You are 100% correct! I for the life cannot understand how they do it!! I noticed that the entry fees are at pre Y2K levels when compared to what the normal entry fee is in the Southeast. I am sure that is dictated by the track rental fee. Maybe not as much competition for weekend race dates as well as population density drving the lower prices.

I have voiced my opinion very often about how the current business model of long track road racing in the southeast is one of the MAIN LIMITING FACTORS to inhibiting it's sustainability. When entry levels for a given race reach $100.00 per class, it DRIVES RACERS AWAY FROM THE SPORT. Period.

I am just guessing here, but I think my numbers are pretty close.

Entry Fee - $95.00 to $100.00 per class
Pit Pass - 2 day is $25.00 - 3 day is $35.00
Transponder rental - $30.00 for 2 days
Temporary WKA membership - $10.00 per entry
Camping at the track - $20.00
Travel cost to the event - 4 tanks of gas at $75.00 per tank

For a total of approximately $585.00

Add $100.00 plus if you get a motel room
Add $100.00 plus for food, drinks etc...

Now, it looks like you will have close to $1000.00 for a weekend IF THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON RACING.
Multiply that by 3 or 4 weekends and you have spent the equivalent of a cruise or some other vacation.

COST is what drives this sport. People cannot afford $100.00 a class to race. I have spoke to many racer promoters and have shared this with them. They seem to think that I am just spouting off.

I contend, that if series would lower the price of entry fees, they would get more racers coming out. As costs have risen, we have lost members racing. It is an inverse relationship. Cost go up, attendance goes down. The only way for series to thrive and grow is to lower price and make up the difference on volume.
 
****Entry fees as high as 130.00. Transponder rental 40 per weekend. Woodbridge sometimes rents 20 per day.Temp membership is 20 per weekend.
 
How can we make up the difference in cashflow until the volume picks back up. That is the challenge. It sounds like ive had the same discussion with road race orgs that you have. I run the CES series when I can. I have little to no interest in WKA to be quite frank.

That said, the $100 entry fee problem is largely psychological, rather than objective. Thats not to say its not a problem, but as you pointed out the entry fee is only part of your entire expenses for the weekend, add up the rest and the entry fee accounts for a small amount. $50 total extra cost (the $75 fee vs $100) over $500, yeah it sucks but I don't think that's not why people aren't coming to play at the big tracks. There has to be another reason for it.

Big tracks cost big money to rent and the events typically require more staff and really each org is limited by the tracks in their locality and the pricing available to them on the dates, that frankly, nobody else wants.
 
I've proposed the idea of having a "kickstarter" approach to events, but nobody has taken me up on it. We did try part of it for the potential USKGP at COTA though.

Divide the reasonable anticipated cost of a given event by, say $140 (70 per driver per day).
Lets say cost for this imaginary event is $16,000 for the weekend.
That puts us at 114 drivers needed to participate both days.

Setup online registration for the event.
A go\no go date is decided, perhaps two weeks out from the event.
There will be a status board showing the event's approach to success. I believe this would be a great way to help driver encourage others to make the race a success, its a great way to get people onboard and get excited for the event.
When drivers register for the race, they enter payment details but not charged.
If the event meets its target, drivers are charged on the cutoff date and are entered into the race.
If the target is not met, race is off and no drivers are charged,

Obstacles:
Risk of track deposit being lost, would have to be negotiated with the track to see if the blow could be softened.


If you find an org or event that's game for this kind of approach, I can build the tech.
 
I know that cost of entry fees, membership, practice, transponder, pit pass, camping, and gas was the reason I was not able to race last year. Figuring that it took me $250.00 per race on a kart that cost me less than $750 to build, not really the best "bang for the buck" when I can pay $25.00 and go drag race the wifes car and still get my speed fix...
 
All interesting and informative posts (other than praying for Bob V's balls. lol) It's good to see the passion from road racers. :)

I'd of thought there would be more curiosity as to which existing groups AKRA has already been talking with (per post #11) and more importantly, if/when these existing groups are considering changes and acknowledge they have been in contact with AKRA..... what their thoughts and intentions are for the future of their RR programs.

Jeff Wesell
streetersuperstands.com
 
Racing on just about any level has become extremely technical and requires a large amount of time in preparation if you want to be successful. Most of the youth now a days are seeking instant gratification (computer games,gaming etc) and are not willing to commit so weekend racing on every level is down. So what do we do? We must ALL become ambassadors to our sport! How? Reach out to our youth get on social media and post pictures and updates on your racing talk to anyone that will listen and when you find someone interested sell them that older kart sitting in the corner dirt cheap and do whatever you can to help them. When people ask me about the cost of racing I explain to them about the hours and hours of time spent with my son and how there is no way to put a monetary value on it. What I am really saying is we MUST ALL work TOGETHER on EVERY level if we want our sport to survive. Promoters we need a cheap daily spectator pass I have people ask me all time what it costs to come watch. Think about it someone may be interested and want to bring their family for one day and even if its just three people it would cost 90$ ! We must make our system more user friendly on every level.
 
01ron said:
Just wondering about the comment "I see no statement from WKA." What does this whole discussion have to do with WKA? Maybe I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Heres the reason why I expect a statement from WKA, A month or more ago, 2,3 maybe more? of their top people, people that have run it for many years went away. Fired? Quit? I've heard both. Whos taking over ? IDK, what is his backround? IDK, I've been through this when the dirt world left WKA, now it seems the sprint world is for the most part gone. I don't remember WKA ever talking with its membership on a forum. They may issue a statement sometimes. The may host a meeting at some race someplace, but never have I seen a open public conversation in a place like this.
I've heard all the reasons why people do not like to talk in public, speak on forums. Dress that up any way you wish, but really it comes down to fear. Fear of having to answer the hard questions.
It must be about 20 years since the first or other break up in WKA. until this year, maybe last to a degree, they haven't recovered Dirt. My guess,Pavement oval is gone, and sprint 2 cy or 4 cy ain't looking to good. Theres alot of people that feel how this has been run in the past is the reason why.I do not want to see NRRS follow the same path yet as of now, I see no changes in how WKA handles things
Every trustee has email, ph's, teleconference is common. Theres no reason that response takes weeks, theres no reason they can't find one official that can openly address questions from the racers on a forum like this
 
Steve,

You and I agree. You have my up most respect in terms of what you have done and continue to do in regards to both your business and the support you give to the Series where your customers are. It's just plain good business.
However, and I think that you will agree here, with WKA, a great many rules changes were proposed, ratified and adopted solely on the input from some suppliers (remember the stock versus billet rod mutiny?). All too often, steering committees, subgroups, Trustees and the like have ALL had karting related businesses. I think that more often than not, that is a conflict of interests. Then, the boards and trustees and reps are tasked with either defending or explaining the actions of the committee after the fact. I have believed that WKA operated under the notion that it was easier to get forgiveness than it was permission.
I have asked this question TIME AND TIME again, and have NEVER gotten ONE person to even attempt to answer or even justify it's inception. WHY DOES WKA REQUIRE SERIES TO CHARGE A TEMPORARY MEMBERSHIP FEE ???
You are covered by the insurance when you buy the pit pass and are listed as a participant! What does WKA do with this Money? What benefit does the holder of the temp membership get in exchange? My opinion is that this is a penalty enacted by WKA on people who elect not to join the organization. Period, nothing more, nothing less.
If rules or rules changes are proposed why wouldn't they be put to a vote for the membership to ratify or reject?
If the series decides to go with a particular tire, why are the racers not involved in determining whether or not it should be done?
I understand that change is conflict, I am faced with it everyday. Parts of it just are not fun, but are necessary.
 
Just an FYI. A normal track, let's say Summit Point cost approx. $7000 + per DAY! Two day event, plus corner workers, medical X2 ambulances, misc labor and awards = approx. $20K plus. Look at VIR, MidOhio and similar facilities and the price goes up by a large margin! At a track such as VIR, three day WKA National event, you're looking at $40K before they even give you the keys for the front gate! And if it rains, and folks don't show up or don't enter their class, the club is SCREWED!! We still have to write the big check!
So, that's where the $100 entry fees, and $30 pit pass prices come from. And as far as schedules are concerned, the WKC has been working on it's 2015 schedule since Sept 2014, and finalized it before Thanksgiving. We also don't get to pick dates. The tracks tell us what's available, and we get to take it or leave it.
I'm only stating these numbers so folks might understand a bit better how things work at the organization level.
Have a good day,
Clark Sr.
 
I am gonna just give you my opinion from the few WKA Road races I have raced. At any of them I really felt very well treated and welcome by most drivers and WKA staff. That pushed me to try add RR to my racing plans, even if I was busy and involved in sprint and dirt oval karting too. Unfortunately both time and budget kept me out of WKA RR last year but I plan to be back again this year. Maybe there is a gap between what you find at the track and the bureaucracy or sometimes their image doesn´t reflect what happens in a a racing day at the track. WKA not be perfect but I wouldn´t like WKA RR to dissapear or be replaced. JMO
 
What clark said. Road races are monumentally expensive to put on. COTA were looking 100K for two days if I remember correctly. There are some exceptions where track rental is reasonable(ish) but for the most part it costs big money to rent these places out, and some of them are hesitant to do so because karting doesnt buy enough of their "value added" stuff to keep them happy.

Our entries are simply spread out too thin across the nation right now for road racing to grow. Each club/org wants its own piece of turf and many of them cross over. Because they want turf they put on more races than perhaps they should.

All the orgs are fighting over scraps. It's a bad deal. For 2016 as drivers we could group together, decide on key tracks\orgs (by the month) that most people would like to run and communicate this with the orgs so they can plan accordingly. This way we might stand a chance of having larger grids and sustainable races. From there we can try and regrow road racing.
 
Clark,

Please understand that I am in NO WAY insinuating that organizing series are "price gouging" or that they over charge. I both agree and understand when you say that the tracks charge what they charge and then we have to show up hat in hand and ask for a date at their venue.

The series that I used to race, the magic number was 125 entries just to make the track rent (excluding corner workers, EMS and Ambulance), all too often those charges came out of the pit pass money and transponder fees, it was and still is a constant Rob Peter to pay Paul scenario.

I don't know what the solution is, if I did, you'd be racing in my series for $40.00 per class and would get appearance money too!! But this is the real world. Plus hours of track time.

I have even thought that if a club would approach membership, say that the yearly budget to put on two or three races will be X amount of dollars. Then, sell a specific number of spots. Like Radialfin said, put it out there and say you must have at least 100 pre entries or signups by a certain date. Then give updates. If you don't get it, then the race is off.

Or, sell x number of memberships, then use the scenarios above to try and draw attendance.

There ar etoo many smart people on here not to be able to figure this out.
 
Mike, certainly no offence taken. I simply wanted folks to understand how the road race thing works, as you already do.
There's no simple answer, but I'd very much like to hear the specifics of what AKRA has to offer the RR community, and take it from there.
Stay warm kids, it's rough out there today!!!!
Clark Gaynor Sr.
 
It may sound like sacrilege, but what if --instead of always using large tracks -- some more "endurance" type events were run on sprint tracks? I know that doesn't cater to the enduro karts, but I'd think that sprint tracks would be cheaper and allow for a "full" schedule with enduro events to be scheduled in such a way as to allow max grid sizes.

Regardless, I don't agree with the concept of "we take whatever date they give us." If a venue told me that, I'd take my business elsewhere, out of self respect. I would, however, recognize that most major motorsports events would trump karting events -- they draw more gate fees and money for the tracks. But off-season and off-peak dates could be arranged, I'd think? I'd also shoot for lesser-booked venues -- Pittsburgh Int' Race Complex, NCCAR, a return to Watkins Glen?, Rockinham, Pocono, Texas, Summit, VIR, and some of the boutique country-club condo tracks (GA, NJ, etc.)

Just a thought from a non-participant (until this year, hopefully.)

I'd be inclined to try more RR if there was direct carry-over from my CIK sprint setup to RR -- just change gear ratio and go. But I'm smart enough not to try to use a minilite system on a RR kart too...and I won't retrofit a MCP system onto a European kart or try to fit 2 of them with custom adapter plate, and potentially 2 master cylinders, all on a kart designed for none of that and a vented Euro system...

I hope RR starts growing again....I'd like to try an Enduro sometime and George Sunderland's promised me a superkart ride for this year too....hard to race with no venues / no entries...
 
Bob Vehring said:
It must be about 20 years since the first or other break up in WKA. until this year, maybe last to a degree, they haven't recovered Dirt. My guess,Pavement oval is gone, and sprint 2 cy or 4 cy ain't looking to good. Theres alot of people that feel how this has been run in the past is the reason why.I do not want to see NRRS follow the same path yet as of now, I see no changes in how WKA handles things
Every trustee has email, ph's, teleconference is common. Theres no reason that response takes weeks, theres no reason they can't find one official that can openly address questions from the racers on a forum like this
Click to expand...

Here's what's really baffling to me. The WKA even have (or did have ?) a designated communications director.
Keith Shampine Public Relations / Communications Director keith@worldkarting.com 704-455-1606 ext 117

But yet I see very little involvement in social media or really any media outlet, including their own site. When press releases do come, they seem to appear on other sites but not their own. Its odd. Maybe there's a communication channel I'm missing. They do seem to be fond of letters which isnt a bad thing I guess but even the most stuck in the mud of guys in the sport tend to have email.
 
"Just a thought from a non-participant (until this year, hopefully.)

I'd be inclined to try more RR if there was direct carry-over from my CIK sprint setup to RR -- just change gear ratio and go. But I'm smart enough not to try to use a minilite system on a RR kart too...and I won't retrofit a MCP system onto a European kart or try to fit 2 of them with custom adapter plate, and potentially 2 master cylinders, all on a kart designed for none of that and a vented Euro system..."

***** I can't resist commenting on this. Luckily we were not as smart as we needed to be a few years ago at Daytona. We entered not one, but two CIK bodied 42-inch wide sprint karts in the road race. One TonyKart and one CRG kart. Retrofitted both with MCP systems. Fitted the Tony with a custom adapter plate and two full brake calipers and fitted the CRG with one full caliper and one Mini-lite caliper. Wait....there is more.....We converted them to 4-cycle engines too! We switched to a big driver gear for the race.
***** At the end of the day we scored a second and third place in class.
***** The next month we had the small gear on it and we were running a paved oval with them.
***** Viva Italia!
 
Ted Hamilton said:
It may sound like sacrilege, but what if --instead of always using large tracks -- some more "endurance" type events were run on sprint tracks? I know that doesn't cater to the enduro karts, but I'd think that sprint tracks would be cheaper and allow for a "full" schedule with enduro events to be scheduled in such a way as to allow max grid sizes.
Click to expand...

It's not that sprint tracks don't cater to enduro karts, the karts just simply aren't set up for Sprint tracks. You'll never see a laydown run on a sprint track, and even though sprint enduros could be converted, it would be difficult at best. The closest we come to this is running at the Shenandoah circuit at Summit point. But again, good for sprint enduros, and CIK style karts mostly.

Ted Hamilton said:
Regardless, I don't agree with the concept of "we take whatever date they give us." If a venue told me that, I'd take my business elsewhere, out of self respect. I would, however, recognize that most major motorsports events would trump karting events -- they draw more gate fees and money for the tracks. But off-season and off-peak dates could be arranged, I'd think? I'd also shoot for lesser-booked venues -- Pittsburgh Int' Race Complex, NCCAR, a return to Watkins Glen?, Rockinham, Pocono, Texas, Summit, VIR, and some of the boutique country-club condo tracks (GA, NJ, etc.)
Click to expand...

We have done many of the things you suggest already with Woodbridge Kart Club. We do go to Summit, and VIR regularly, and we had two events at NCCAR last season (1 WKC, & 1 WKA).
NCCAR is off the schedule for this year, I think they need to do some improvements to the facility before we reconsider going back.
NJMP basically priced themselves out, and their off season rates weren't appealing enough to risk weather concerns. We've been there, almost got snowed out.
There is also a new track being built near Fredericksburg VA, and it will be given consideration when it opens for business.
I'm open to new venues, but driving distances are a factor. I max out at a 12 hour driving day when attending by myself.

A lot of these tracks that are closer to larger population centers (like the east coast) do have higher demands on the track time and availability. I know that Woodbridge Board members, such as Clark, do work diligently to get our dates, and also to partner with other organizations by sharing the track to make it affordable.
 
The older tony//karts with dual master cylinders, each driving a caliper half, used to be legal as a "dual" system...I had one, and was going to RR with....then dual calipers were mandated and I lost all interest. I'm a fan of KISS -- if it isn't broke, don't make it more complicated with the fix. I'd be more worried about poor maintenance internally...or inadequate disc thickness/size. A good vented rotor, of suitable large diameter to lessen leverage required for stopping would fix the issues, I think.

And another thought -- why are RR events 2 day? I'd rather see Sat be racing, Sunday be open track time (and a backup rain day.) I can see if a venue requires 2-day booking, but why not consolidate/eliminate classes to get bigger run groups, and have longer races if you want more track time? Didn't races used to be 60 min? Then 45? now ?? Just curious....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top