Alcohol

PHP 44

New member
Why does the Clone world not go to alcohol?
it is much safer than gas, the worst thing is you can't see it burning. I am sure most of us have seen a flat head turn over an catch fire on alcohol, just think if that was gas. I really don't like having a tank full of gas between my or my sons legs. Few will remember about 65 Ford entered some cars at Indy. that ran gas. I can't remember how bad it was but when they crashed they caught fire. After that Indy banned gas and only alcohol could be used.
 
18 yrs of karting and ive never seen a kart flip and catch fire,since the clone came out ive yet to hear of a fire from gas.....why change what is working?
 
Clone

Why take a chance, throw gas on a kart and light it an see what happens. The Clone has not been around that long, I am sure you have seen a flat head catch on fire.
 
i just said out of 18 yrs in karting ive yet to see OR hear of a fire yet....yes the clones have been around for several yrs now....why the hell would i throw gas on a kart and lite it?..it appears the clone has been out longer than youve been racing!
Why take a chance, throw gas on a kart and light it an see what happens. The Clone has not been around that long, I am sure you have seen a flat head catch on fire.
 
Clone

No I have not been in Kart racing very long, If I remember right in 1985 we had a Bug Kart, before your time. I make a statement and you want to be smart about it.
 
Why does the Clone world not go to alcohol?
it is much safer than gas, the worst thing is you can't see it burning. I am sure most of us have seen a flat head turn over an catch fire on alcohol, just think if that was gas. I really don't like having a tank full of gas between my or my sons legs. Few will remember about 65 Ford entered some cars at Indy. that ran gas. I can't remember how bad it was but when they crashed they caught fire. After that Indy banned gas and only alcohol could be used.
I beg to differ with you! On the contrary....It makes a very pretty Blue shade of color! Seriously...there is NO advantage in 'Stock' Clones using methanol (ie; very low compression)....In-general, most people are 'afraid' of methanol....It is Not readily available and tracks don't want too handle it....NO additives are allowed, therefore extra maintenance is required....other than that 'Alcohol' is for racing and 'Gasoline' is for cleaning parts! JMO
 
this could turn into another "what oil is better?" arguement. gas, racing fuel or methanol? sometimes the choice is taken out of your hands by rules, other times, depending on the class, you may be allowed to chose your own fuel (as our rules are). one reason that i don't run methanol is the caustic nature of it. it eats way at aluminum parts whereas gas doesn't...it just gums things up.

now....about the fire thing...i am not going to ssecond guess anyone and say that there have or haven't been gas fires in kart racing....but if you look at the safety aspect, then gas is just as safe as methanol. you have to remember, you are not in an inclosed space such as a race car. you have the ability to bail out very quickly should you realize that something isn't right. second, if you are that concerned about "I really don't like having a tank full of gas between my or my sons legs." then invest in a aluminum tank with the rollover valve. this will prevent any punctures and safely contain the fuel incase you do get upside down. also invest in a good firesuit or at least the pants and couple that with a complimentary karting jacket. this will provide you with adequate protection in case of fire. again, and i can't say this often enough.....safety is THE most important thing in kart racing because we are in an open cockpit, without belts, racing at speeds above 50mph (and in some cases over 75mph). i wear a complete suit (as i described)...firesuit pants and a karting jacket (becuase of the exhaust heat), coupled with racing boots, fireproof gloves, a balaclava and a snell sa2010 rated helmet (which will be replaced at the end of this season). i've already experienced one flip at speed on a 3/8 mile, medium banked, paved oval.....and didn't get any fuel on me, nor was there any fuel lost because my tanks all have rollover valves. was i safe? hell no!! i flipped a dang kart and landed upside down with the kart on me!! did it hurt? hell yes!! i got a boo-boo cut on my left elbow!! but did i take every precaution that i could BEFORE the flip to try and be as safe as possible? YES!!!! double yes!!

php44....don't be afraid of what MIGHT happen in a kart....take precautions now to be as safe as possible right now.

be safe, race fast, race hard and smile....it's all good!!

just sayin.....

oh, forgot to mention that my son and i run 110 octane sunoco race fuel in our karts....
 
you clearly stated and i quote" throw gas on a kart and light it an see what happens".what kind of a reply did you expect?.....
No I have not been in Kart racing very long, If I remember right in 1985 we had a Bug Kart, before your time. I make a statement and you want to be smart about it.
 
I think they should just from the illegal additives being put in it in gas, which is more so a safety issue. Lets open up that can of worms again
 
Two things here!!! One: I remember an incident some time back where there was a fire at a track and a young racer was near it. Someone grabbed a bottle of alcohol ( thinking it was water ) and threw it on the fire next to the kid. He was burnt bad!! Two: We have done some pretty extensive research on additives in gasoline with the digitron 64 fuel tester. I will say this. If you want to stop the illegal additives in the gas, purchase the digitron!!!!! WE have a clip of our testing with the digitron 64 in the beginning section of the DVD that is available for tech inspectors that wish to get certified. www.dynodonkartengines.com click on "information"
 
I wonder how sales of the 64 gauge are going? I'm sure they are up. Looks like it's a great tool at catching some things that the previous model couldn't, but not something a lot of tracks can afford I'm afraid. When competitors are buying these gauges just to see what and how much they can "get away with," that's gotta help sales too. It doesn't matter what technology you introduce, there will always be some who will do everything in their capacity to flirt with the edges of the rules.
Personally, I say make them all alcohol engines - they are already a fully blueprinted engine! What extra cost is involved? None! Don't think for a second that your current gas carbs aren't blueprinted.
Price & availability: Alcohol is cheaper than spec gas +additives already. Alcohol is readily available (non-ethanol, pure gas, benzenes, propylene oxides, etc etc) are expensive and not exactly purchased at the nearest gas station to the track. One less fuel for the track parts guys to carry. Tracks that offer pump-arounds would only need one rather than two (gas being highly explosive.)
I HAVE seen karts on fire. Both times, it's been gas (2 cycle & clone.) With that said, I wouldn't base any decision of mandated fuel by safety alone. It needs to be grade consistent and tech enforceable (something that a lot of club and local tracks are having serious trouble with gas currently.)

--
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Celebrating 25 years of service to the karting industry
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
I can only imagine that the main driving force behind the clone really does not want to see alky being used. This would probably push the power over the edge and cause cast rod failures, fractured crankshafts and other stress failures. Then the clone fixes would really be in the path of the old flat heads! Not good for a program that is already heading in that direction ! i.e. converting to alky would drive the cost of the engine up and reduce the durability!

Steve
 
I hear you Steve.
I like the aspects of LO206 and Pro-Gas animal on gas, but the clone has become a fully blueprinted race engine.
The clones do not come with quality reliable rods like the Briggs do, and the clones are already seeing rod failures at current rpms.
Billet clone rods are readily available (and legal at some tracks) and certainly on the horizon to be approved across the board.
I suspect that we'll also see the current spring tech go by the wayside in lieu of overall length and coil wire diameter tech similar to the flathead in the not so distant future.

As far as I'm concerned, the clone has been a fully blueprinted engine for a few years now. $1000+ for an engine that is $100 retail - why shouldn't they have a reliable rod for that kind of money?

Gas or alcohol, it's already a blueprinted engine.
 
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