Animal BP again

Im not against your kit jimbo. I like the idea, but why make more classes. Honestly I could care less what the road race guys are doing. I race dirt oval and there is already to many damn engine options. When are racers going to realize that the more and more engine packages you add the less people your going to race against per class. If our season ever kicks off we have at least 6-7 guys dedicated to a bp animal class at our track. Not only that we have almost the whole class on the same page about a ss33a only rule. It took years to get this many people on board and Im gonna stick with it. There are a lot of people I've talked to here in the northern Illinois/indiana are that are sick of the clown motors and most of them have or are ready to go back to the animal. Its going to take a lot of work to get any briggs ohv back on top in the dirt world. Clowns are still king atm and the predators will continue to be a competitive option for beginners all because of price.
 
Animal engine is roughly 10 times the cost as a clone in stock trim (ie $35 per 10,000 imported.)
If the end result is a $1500 animal that started life @ $500+, or a $1500 clone that started life @ $99 retail, I think I see where the value comes from

Good arguments can be made for the quality of the metalurgy (although the clones have been getting better,) longevity of blocks, stabilized castings, etc etc. Now, had the comparison been between Briggs & Honda, I don't think we'd be having this discussion.

I guess it's somewhat akin to comparing Ford trucks to JAC trucks.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/...-against-chinese-company-over-knockoff-f-150/
 
I'd put my money on the quality of a limited flathead maintaining itself than a limited clone any day :LOL: ;) :ROFLMAO: :p
 
Yea , i'm not on board with the clone is far inferior theory .
I have two animals , three clones . There is no differnce in the actual quality .
Cost to build is a totally different thing .
Actually pretty equal , you just got to accept the fact a clone costs less initially. Its not a 99 dollar predator.
Face it the animal is just a improved intek lawn mower engine .
It started with a high price point and went up from there .
 
The LO 206 is not "blueprintable" and it has become the dominate class in the sprint kart racing world.
The Super Stock engine rules are as close to to the LO 206 rules as possible in fact it uses all the 206 rules except for the
coil, and i can't think of any reason you would need to tech the coil since it doesn't have a rev limiter.
All the carb rules are the same except for the SPECIFIED methanol jet sizes
The valve springs are virtually the same as the 206 just a little stiffer
The head depth measurements are the same as the 206 so you can't machine it for more compression.
The rod specifications are the same as they have always been for the 206 or the animal
etc etc.
 
HG Racing has presented a kart racing team continuously since 2005. We are strong supporters of the Briggs Racing Program, running both Animal and World Formula Engines. We have raced both gas and alcohol classes at the 4 Stroke Grand Nationals collecting several Screaming Eagles and six Duffies. Recently, we have watched the strong increase in the LO206 Racing Program using the sealed engines. From the beginning, it was apparent that there would be a need for the engines when worn beyond racing usefulness, and a place for experienced drivers to advance.



Our team has extensive experience with the Briggs World Formula Engine, starting when a new, fresh World Formula was the preferred option, then advancing through the years as decking and milling began to be introduced to provide allowable pop-outs. The in-the-box ready to race World Formula Engine available for $999 has advanced to a carefully blueprinted engine that produces 12.2 to 12.5 horsepower at a cost of approximately $1,800. This was not the direction we perceived that experience LO206 rivers would choose to transition into.



We expressed our concerns to our engine provider, Jim Frantz of Faster Motors, and he said that he also had been giving though to what could be the re-use options for the LO206 engines. The 206 Super Stock Engine Transformation Kit that Jim has developed is the perfect answer. At HG Racing, we believe so strongly in this new racing package that we have put our World Formula engines on the shelf and have been building and testing the 206 Super Stock Engines. In following the posted blog, we believe that most concerns in this engine development have been correctly explained, but possibly a few have been overlooked.



  • The block/head/crank donor can be Animal or LO206.
  • The open ignition, no rev limiter, allows more tuning at the track. We use the Animal Coil but the 206 Super Stock also has a billet rod, (World Formula Style), a Dyno Cam that has quick ramp, a high compression piston, and improved valve springs. This is where the 206 Super Stock differs in performance from an Animal.
  • With the open ignition, we have been able to add teeth to the rear gear to get a better pull out of the corners, and at the top end, we can hit over 8,000 RPM before experiencing valve float.
  • The engine can be configured to run gas or methanol fuel. We use locally produced methanol that is available in a 5-gallon pail at a cost of $32.73. The cost of VP Race Gas has been running between $12 to $15 per gallon (California Pricing). Even with the larger carb jets, and higher rate of consumption, the Methanol is less expensive to race with than race gas.
  • The head and block temperatures are greatly reduced when running methanol. High head temperatures which have cause failures in 4-Stroke Engines in the past are no longer an issue.
  • The engine platform is simple and produces greater horsepower than a World Formula. It is also much more affordable. We obtain work LO206 or Animal Engines at a core cost of approximately $200, and the 206 Super Stock Kit at $410. At a total cost of $610, the 206 Super Stock Engine has a very low cost for a high performance 4 Stroke Kart Engine.


With all programs, there are drawbacks. Over the past few seasons, I have noticed that many of the drivers that race in LO206 classes show up to the track and climb into a kart that is professionally prepared and maintained. The LO206 sealed engine made it easy for large teams to field many “arrive and drive” racers. The 206 Super Stock is the perfect upgrade to those who have the desire to learn and understand a new operating platform. If you choose to use methanol, the engine needs to be drained down and pickled before storing away. We are fortunate in Southern California to have Terry Nash as he can provide the technical support to racers that may be unsure of how to enter this racing format.



In short, there is an abundance of donor engines available, the build and operating cost is affordable, technical support is available, and the engine produces great power and will live at 8,000 RPM. The 206 Super Stock Engine deserves your consideration.
 
Brian, No PG - i get it !

1) For starters i would like to see a minimum oil ring spring length, preferably stock length ( this will eliminate all the smoke on grid and significantly reduces the Methanol in the crankcase! )
2) I do think a spec camshaft would be good idea
3) Fix the current exhaust system............. or at least allow a better design 2 piece with port extension.
4) I really like the rule of the intake burr must be present ( similar to LO206 head port spec ) - but this would force a lot of heads to be replaced!
5) Definitely allow the Cometic - MLS head gasket!

Steve
1. A basically unneeded rule that realistically will not be enforced, as rarely, in most kart racing, is a motor taken down that far. Besides for those that depend on their motor builders for assembly, it increases costs. I am a supporter of rules that do not mandate disassembly of the lower end. This decreases the cost for those that do not have the confidence in their abilities to re-assemble. In my experience most excessive smoking comes from upside down first and/or second rings then the over cutting of the oil ring spring. Additionally I do not support rules that prevent a competitor from doing things that actually hurt performance. Screw it, if you want to do things that hurts performance go right ahead.
2. I do not think that the vast majority of tech officials or engine builders have the necessary skills or equipment to enforce but I can't say it is that bad of an idea.
3. Yes fix exhaust rule
4. Yes intake burr great to enforce no porting
5. Absolutely, yes any head gasket even remove thickness requirement
6. Timing rule mentioned by others. Set it as you like, slow yourself down, who cares.
7. My rule not mentioned: Valve guide non tech. We can do better for longevity then stock. Length , projection into port debatable I suppose.
 
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The rules for SS class are very specific---a racer can assemble the engine at home, installing parts as received and not run afoul of the rules. I will give free upfront advice to those interested.
 
Interesting, revisiting this thread as I'm finishing up a couple more pro-wing class engines for Millbridge. You can look their rules up online, but basically cut the seals on the 206, install an AN Mod1 cam w./ comp. release (it has to remain pul start,) install std or +.010" WF domed piston, ARC stock length billet rod, any ignition timing, any single or double valve springs, mill the head to min. .300" chamber depth and cut the deck to +.035" max pop-up. Stock 206 carb set up to run on alcohol. Use the WF 7100 limit coil. Quick 16+ CHP.


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🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
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34 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
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I still can't see why we need so many different classes. Why can't we just make it all one class, Builder prepared means any engine blue printed within parity of this other engine. I know the rule creep, "OH this engine is better, we need this to make this engine equal." Give them a very similar rule package and it's just like Ford vs Chevy engines and you get to go back to actually racing.

Then have your out of the box engines, put a rev limiting coil on it and keep it bone stock with some checks to stop any blatant cheating and stop blue printing these engines. It can ONLY HELP the sport, and no one wants to see it.

Then you have your SBO for those that really want more.
Then you have RWYB/UAS for those that really want to go nuts. You all just want to make **** too complicated.

Then it goes back more like it was back in the 80's-90's with higher fields and more actual racing instead of watching 3 people ride in circles. Let's all these people with engines "sitting" not wanting to invest in the next platform pushed, actually use those engines. It's going to cost to make that engine fit the rules, or buy the next platform so I think the cost point is mute here as well.
And don't say it would take all night to tech them, it already does anyway. That's not a good argument.

(Edit) Another thing, people will say, it would take a lot to find parity between the engines. Well, they're constantly taking time to develop new rules for this new platform their pushing, why not take that same time to develop a rule set that benefits everyone, instead of a tiny few. Same time investment, just better spent.
 
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There is no universally available coil , for each engine thats currently raced .
For the out of the box stick with the Predator or whatever the Ghost follows, they already have the coil for that. Simple. No need to allow every single engine that can't fall into the RPM limiting coil in those rules. I don't know why people would want to push for another engine once one is established. Stick with it. I know everyone thinks changing engines will give them the edge, but we all know it's setup and tires that gets the wins if the engines are kept in check. It's been proven too many times.

If they want another engine, and to go faster that's what BP is for. Any engine, and blue printing for speed.
 
For the winged outlaw karts, (at least in most parts of the country,) this is a natural progression. The box stock classes are running sealed Briggs 206s. The desire to go faster means updating your current engine rather than investing in another new one. Take your current sealed 206 and apply the mods that I mentioned above. I like the direction of fewer engines and classes, not more.
 
Predator racing around here is the biggest classes around me. predator racers don't want to spend the money on a ghost, or a Dynocams Ducar and you need to put up money to get kart counts in clone. I have 5 clones. are you asking me to support them becoming obsolete? good luck with that. Asking people for yet another class and another 1500.00 engine just goes to show how out of touch people are with kart Racing in the 2020s
 
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