Animal pro gas road racing

jse

New member
Steve Baker and Peewee @ MGM have been working out the details for the Animal Pro Gas class for us road racers. Pro Gas has been a huge success in Gold Cup, so we plan to give it a try in road racing. The narrow bodies we use in RR have created some clearance issues that are being worked out. Daytona road race winners will also be eligible to take home some nice prizes for their efforts.
Stay tuned for more info !!
 

Bob Vehring

New member
I remember the days when all we had to load up was a couple WKA BP Animals, and where ever we went I was sure we could pick a class where everyone we wanted to race against would be in it.
Now looks like I need some BP Animals, a limited, LO 206, some cloans and now a Pro Gas Animal. Glad we were there when we could count of 35-40 people in the class
 

jse

New member
You are right Bob. Those were the good old days. But, in reality, karters are not coming out to race. Maybe just maybe there will be some interest in one of the above classes you mentioned. I hope so and I know you do too. I really liked the Clones when we had ten or fifteen entries. Then, some racer jumped over to the 206's. Now, Daytona is the only place where we have many entries. I mentioned the Pro Gas class because it has been so well accepted in Gold Cup and to help a couple of friends try and get it going. I like four stroke racing. The engine brand really doesn't matter. My plan this year is to race the Clone one day and a Briggs on the next day. The 206 has been lots of fun for us at Savannah so, I thought I would give the Pro Gas a try. Bottom line is .... I'm gonna race something.
 

SteveK51

New member
Big time agreement with Bob. Animal has the participation in RR, and then there's a motley crue of entries across clone, 206, LM, and now apparently Gas Pro. These lower gas prices will help Daytona entries more than adding another class will.

Maybe I'll get my hands on a K4A engine and request a class (15 hp, 8500 rpms, 70 hrs between rebuilds). That'll be even more affordable and make for another option nobody asked for in an already too fractured segment of the sport.
 

Bob Vehring

New member
Well guys, wish I had an answer, but this is the history of karting, every time something starts working, people have to change it and I don't mean Steve (Baker) He is the man in GC and he has supported it for decades, he's one of the few old time builders left. With out Steve, I doubt GC would still be running. It was shone in dirt that once the class structure changed to non builder engine classes, the people who support these series go out, those are the people that bring the entries to a class. You know how many people we used to bring from here.
Animal BP had a strong run of years where it was consistently the largest class in RR'ing, both WKA and CES, Spliting it up so many ways is what took out everyone from up here. I can see some diversification, but Cloan, LO and Pro Gas all fit into the cheaper but slower class, not really alot of difference in them. WKA doesn't care how many people are in a class, whatever you enter, the money goes to them, but when it gets split up too many ways, there comes a point when the race isn't worth driving to
 

Peewee158

Member
I'm sorry that I was trying to help the road race series grow ---------- I agree with BOB Vehring ---he is alot smarter than myself . The clone numbers have declined
i'll support the road race series as best that I can .
See you guys at Daytona 1

Peewee MGM Fab
 

Bob Vehring

New member
Peewee its not your fault, its a lack of direction with WKA
Out here in both Sprint (Badger,) and RR, (CES) there simply is a meeting, sometimes in person, sometime emails or forum, all the racers from a given group, (like all 4 cycle racers ) vote among themselfs for the class structure as a group for the next year.
everything is decided by the racers who actually race those classes, when there's a difference of opinion, it gets talked out, and a vote is taken.
We've done that for many years, everything from Kid Karts to shifter have their meetings. Bottom line, we make the decissions
 

SteveK51

New member
...and that was the question I raised before the forum crash, who are the competitors clamoring for this class to be created.
 

Peewee158

Member
Well Steve ------------------------im sure we have many different ideas about alot of things !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been in discussion with several racers that want it
I would say that I have about 8 guys that will run it because of the clone rules and that the gas animal is a better package
But I'm sure you have your own ideas! Which I'm sure are better
I wont post any more on the gas animal class til the other guys chime in but there are some nice awards available if this class has a total of 20 entries for the two race days ! Actually 18 cause we will have two entries -- Would be nice to grow and not gripe ---- Hell who knows but the modified class has low numbers and the clones have even fewer numbers ---- maybe WKA will allow the gas animals run with the alky class with a weight break but if you have a better idea .Please share it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for your time

Peewee MGM Fab
 

steve baker

Member
Thanks Bob V for your kind words! I really do not understand the road race series, heck I have only been to I think 3 maybe 4 races ever. I have thought however that it might just be the series that I actually decide to race myself in sometime when and if I give up on the gold cup series. I have watched the gold cup entries dwindle from an average of 228 in 2008 to 131 in 2012. This was for the animal classes only. To me obviously something was not working at all over those past 5 years. So a few of us that still care about the gold cup series along with WKA put our heads together and went to work on a lower cost Animal design, with lower cost and durability being the main focus, and came up with the Animal Pro Gas engine. IMO its about the best compromise for cost, durability and performance. It's true its not quite as fast as alky, but only 6% less on peak HP and they are real close on HP at the upper RPM levels like 7500 to 8000. This engine package has been very well received by the gold cup racers in 2013 with the 2 largest classes being the Pro Gas Sportsman and Sr. The decline of entries in the gold cup series I'm sure was not all do to the Animal cost but if there was ever a time to bite the bullet, as they say, and do a clean sheet redesign on the Animal for lower cost it was now when the entries were at an all time low. I cannot see how anyone can disagree with a lower cost engine package! I agree with everyone posting that we do not need more classes, but we do need a class that is more affordable and has longer durability than the Alky animal and is still fast enough to attract racers, unlike the clone class. Weather its a good fit for the road race series I really do not know. When a few road racers asked me about the Pro Gas engine for this series I told them I did not know but told them to work with WKA and see what they think and I would support them in any way I could and that is where Peewee and a hand full of racers took over and here we are. I would not think it would hurt the series in any way and might just add a few more entries who would rather race the Animal instead of the Clone. I do think however that some of the old time road racers might be impressed with the top end speed of the Animal Pro Gas. It has a sweet camshaft on the big end! Owe yea one more thing, not to direct at anyone in particular, but it works a lot better to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem in growing the sport of karting. Support and promote the sport of karting to everyone all the time, organizations, racers, sponsors, supporters...........etc.etc.

Thanks for your time also!
Steve
www.Bakerracingengines.com
 

SteveK51

New member
I appreciate the posts Steve and Peewee, I'm glad to hear the basis of this push is drivers. That wasn't the impression I had before, so you can count on me to be more supportive of the class.

Eight entries is a good start this far out from the event, and seeing some interest in upgrading from the clone is great as well.
 

Bob Vehring

New member
Good mourning Steve, been awhile. Don't get me wrong I couldn't care less which engine it comes down to. If pro Gas became the engine of choice, and thats what everyone had, I'd be happy with that. My point is, NO engines are ever taken out of the mix when new ones come in, its getting just like the 2 cy world in Sprint. How many engine choices do we need?
Last month at our Badger Sprint 4 cy meeting, I brought up installing LO classes, I run the meeting, I ask the questions and I try hard to not let any personal views come through. It was 34 to 0 to not have them. Limited didn't fly here either, and I did push on that. Its clear here that racers want large classes to race against over anything else.
I understand some people will complain abut the cost of an engine, much of that cost is the price of the engine and cost of the cam, the work that you, my kid or anyone else does is basically the same on any of the engines from there. When a Animal goes out of here, most times I don't see it back for 2 seasons. The only thing really needing replacement is springs which we do often for people at the track, on their kart.
Not sure why you chose gas and only stating my opinion here but I think Alky is a main reason the engines last as long as they do. Alky takes a bunch of temp out of the head, which is good but the big thing, again IMHO is Alky is such a clean fuel there is almost no carbon build up. Don't have to worry about blowing the pop up or head depth rule, the carbon doesn't run past the rings and valves losing seal.
When talking about costs, to me engines are low on the list, by far travel, gas, motorhome trailer maintenance are by far the largest followed by chassis and tires. Those costs are what they are, we don't mind paying them IF the racing is good when we get to the track. When we have 4 or 5 engine choices, then throw in the different wt classes, I just don't see a racer base, big enough to support all those choices.
I'm ok if you add Pro Gas but get rid of some of the others. Out here CES only offers WKA BP Animal, were not as big as WKA anymore (but were growing) and you know that any 4 cy guy that shows up is going to be in one of the 3 wt classes, bring some lead and chose a class. We all race each other.
 

Bob Vehring

New member
Oh, and Hi Steve K, I just figured out who you were when I saw the location, we'll have to get you on a sled when you come up visiting your dad
 

Vmax

New member
Hiya BobV, SteveB,

Road racing has always been a very small core group compared to other karting venues.

We have been LOOKING at the ProGas class but cannot really see the benifits to having ANOTHER enine class. All it ever seems to do is drawn from the core group so you only have very small classes of EACH type. We have ran Fhs, Animals, Clonies and the LO206.

IF RR is to continue it will have to figure out how to DRAW MORE new drivers as the current core group is NOT large enough to continue to do so

NOW if you could add a rev limiter to the engine it would be a decent addition(use the WF coil , 7100?)

Lo206 racing has been a hoot. RL racing has been a new thing to LEARN as it IS different and demanding on both the driver and Crew Chiefs (;-). Weather and wind direction plays a larger part in the equation.

SteveB if you have time I would like to call you and chat a minute about the engine class to make sure I understand it fully. I no longer Build engines but still tune them. We may run the Progas class at Daytona but as ALL our animals are oversize bores it may take a total build to create one.

Just a thought, (;-) TP
 

steve baker

Member
Bob,

One of the main objectives with the Pro Gas engine was to try and make it cost competitive with the Clone. As we both know the clone took a huge bite out of the Briggs Animal sales. This is mainly true in the Dirt Oval series racing. Sooooooooo we needed to get the Animal back in line to be competitive again and so as far as I am concerned we are pretty close as of now. Most clone engine builders in the south are getting $700.00 to $950.00. We at Baker engines are selling the Pro Gas engine for $850.00 and this includes the WF billet rod. I am happy building them for that price and no plans to increase this. In fact with a little help from Briggs I see this cost dropping slighty going forward, thanks Dave Klaus! Nobody really likes change, even me, it can be uncomfortable, but sometimes its for the better.

Thanks
Steve

PS - Bob V. I really miss talking to you, bench racing, at the track!
 

Vmax

New member
HIYA Enduro48, the LO206 is fast because we used the same breakin proceedure that I used on the clonies (;-) That 4" bore did not hurt it much either.

OJ may have something to do with the equation also the skunkliner is really FREE down the shute as well.

Also working with the carb the latest TUNE is a rocket. BUT we did have to go with a LARGER gas tank.

I really would like to see a Rev limter coil used with ProGas. It would keep the top end boys down where they belong. Also limiting the top rpm saves a lot of engine wear and tear.

MAYbe Briggs needs to do a Sealed ProGas like the LO206 ???

Just a thought, (;-) TP
 

Peewee158

Member
As I remember Daytona --- a couple clones were running with and all over the 206 and that was before all the new rule changes with cam and push rods

Peewee158 MGM Fab
 
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