animal Vs Clone

I'm same as you except I only change oil once every 6 races, changed springs once and valves, my nephew ran our entire points season in sr 340lb plus a few other races, vs our Animal ( which I don't feel is to expensive ) but only ran it in the 8 Elite races plus like 4 others had a lot more issues ,rebuilts ,and expenses with it. plus ran our back up Animal to get through vs never had to bolt our back up clone on the kart.
 
I'm same as you except I only change oil once every 6 races, changed springs once and valves, my nephew ran our entire points season in sr 340lb plus a few other races, vs our Animal ( which I don't feel is to expensive ) but only ran it in the 8 Elite races plus like 4 others had a lot more issues ,rebuilts ,and expenses with it. plus ran our back up Animal to get through vs never had to bolt our back up clone on the kart.

oil change once every 6 races!?!?!
 
We ran a blue plate clone this year against gold flathead and animals. The only thing we gave up with the clone, if any, was on the starts. Seems the animal might have a slight advantage however I can not swear to it. As for the flathead vs. the clone, straight up the clone definitely wins even with a 20 pound weight adder. Against the animal they are about as close as you can get in my opinion. Jerry Dover had posted on Bob's before the crash some good information on all three against each other and I saved it somewhere but cant seem to find it right now. I was quite surprised how they compared. Yes, the clone costs are getting higher but they are still cheaper than an animal starting out. They use regular gas which is a plus, you can get a lot more races on one before rebuilding them is needed, and over all cost of a rebuild is less.


Idk about you but we get about 20 race nights out of our animals before a rebuild. That's with just regular maintenance: change oil after the heats, flush at the end if the night, keep it clean. Without doing valve spring changes every 3-4 races. And we get more power than a clone. And I'm pretty sure an animal is better on the starts because they produce more torque.
 
Thats a lot between nights (in my mind), i change mine every night (practice, heat, feature) or every six runs, 2 practice 2 heat 2 feature at the absolute most. Dyno tests show that an engine produces the most HP when on out of the jug fresh oil. even after 1 run you can see a slight decrease in HP on the dyno. (especially in V8s, V10's and V12's)
Just a little bit of personal experience.
 
Thats a lot between nights (in my mind), i change mine every night (practice, heat, feature) or every six runs, 2 practice 2 heat 2 feature at the absolute most. Dyno tests show that an engine produces the most HP when on out of the jug fresh oil. even after 1 run you can see a slight decrease in HP on the dyno. (especially in V8s, V10's and V12's)
Just a little bit of personal experience.

I'm sure your correct and that's good to know, But if your winning and running up front why spend the added funds. If ya go to a bigger money show sure put fresh in.
 
pro gas animal for $850 ,race all season with no maintence only oil changes.100 times better than the clone china junk !
 
your big engine builders made the push for the clones,, flatheads were on the way out, everyone had animals, they were so reliable they only seen the motors back every year or so for a rebuild, some every two years and they had no work. along came the clones, they put up alot of money to build the class, had enough clout to have the rules changed often to make mandatory rebuilds to run them. they fail often,, loah and behold, they jack the price sky high and are making tons, why do you think the big engine guys sponsor most big races. and have the big boys on their motors,, they get 1200 for a 300 dollar motor, they bring or highly suggest the tech men at the big races, and once again loah and behold, they never fail tech and they keep selling them. you get a so so motor for your buck. so when a new lower cost class comes along. and they start selling fewer motors, they will push the next big thing in karting. lower the cost. never show up for a big race you can't win, let the track owners start losing and then have low cost saturday night races. will that happen no.
 
Well the clones started in the mid west.with hf engines jim sims was over the race clones popin up around here bob.but the blue hf engines like the one i dawged you with at 4 way when you showed up with that yellow one but it was bsp and dyno cams and arc racing that took the clone to far.but look at my name I knew the deal from the start with my 35 years in and around karting.
 
your big engine builders made the push for the clones,, flatheads were on the way out, everyone had animals, they were so reliable they only seen the motors back every year or so for a rebuild, some every two years and they had no work. along came the clones, they put up alot of money to build the class, had enough clout to have the rules changed often to make mandatory rebuilds to run them. they fail often,, loah and behold, they jack the price sky high and are making tons, why do you think the big engine guys sponsor most big races. and have the big boys on their motors,, they get 1200 for a 300 dollar motor, they bring or highly suggest the tech men at the big races, and once again loah and behold, they never fail tech and they keep selling them. you get a so so motor for your buck. so when a new lower cost class comes along. and they start selling fewer motors, they will push the next big thing in karting. lower the cost. never show up for a big race you can't win, let the track owners start losing and then have low cost saturday night races. will that happen no.

That's quite the story. :)
A statement and a question.

The statement is that it seems like the price of these clones goes up a hundred dollars or so with each new post. It's almost like folks are pulling numbers out of thin air.

The question- How many rich kart engine builders do you know?
 
Idk about you but we get about 20 race nights out of our animals before a rebuild. That's with just regular maintenance: change oil after the heats, flush at the end if the night, keep it clean. Without doing valve spring changes every 3-4 races. And we get more power than a clone. And I'm pretty sure an animal is better on the starts because they produce more torque.

I agree you can get 20 before a rebuild but I've also had less than 10 as well. We ran 22 shows on our clone and I'd bet its just as strong now as it was in our first race. Likewise though our very first night on a clone ended with a blown motor as the side cover bolts came lose and "Bang". Running methanol is hard on the flats and animals no matter how you slice it while pump gas is not so bad. Need to deal with valve springs with the clones however in the plate classes its not necessary to change them as often as we only changed them once this year. More power..... not so in the plate classes. Maybe a different torque curve is all where the animal has it on the lower end and the clone has it on the upper end at least in blue. There's pro's and con's to no matter what we run. All I know is that the only constant in karting is change. Embrace it or let things pass us by. Like I said earlier we simply went that direction so we would have a decent class to run with. As much as we might not like it at the end of the day it is still cheaper to go with a clone and less maintenance.
 
Thanks for reposting that chart we made a few years ago.. I needed it for our new website..

The post above mention China built junk.. Does that mean you would not run ANYTHING made in China (Engine wise) ?

Average rebuild cycle for a clone 20-30 races and seen even more.
To stay tip top change springs every 6 races (Give us equal springs of what the other engines run and we can go all season as well)
HP & Speed,, Clone is handicaped with a .615 venturi and Gas (Allow equal carb an alky and the clone will blast it)
Average rebuild cost is $200-$250... If you can do it yourself approx $50-$75 bucks
Still most clone builders are half the price of the other engines offered..
These are a few facts concerning the clone engines..


We continue to build both or all engines.. I will not bash one to create or try to destroy the other..We sell what the customer on the other end of the phone ask for..
 
Thanks for reposting that chart we made a few years ago.. I needed it for our new website..

The post above mention China built junk.. Does that mean you would not run ANYTHING made in China (Engine wise) ?

Average rebuild cycle for a clone 20-30 races and seen even more.
To stay tip top change springs every 6 races (Give us equal springs of what the other engines run and we can go all season as well)
HP & Speed,, Clone is handicaped with a .615 venturi and Gas (Allow equal carb an alky and the clone will blast it)
Average rebuild cost is $200-$250... If you can do it yourself approx $50-$75 bucks
Still most clone builders are half the price of the other engines offered..
These are a few facts concerning the clone engines..


We continue to build both or all engines.. I will not bash one to create or try to destroy the other..We sell what the customer on the other end of the phone ask for..


Can always count on Dover being Pro! :) Im not trying to destroy one or the other. I just think It has gotten out of hand. Besides im a B&S guy at heart. (so im biased to begin with xD)
 
I'm PRO engine building.. It is our chosen profession.. I'd build Mercury Outboards if my phone started ringing for them..
I'm against anyone trying to kill one thing to promote another..
Racers can make their own mind up on what they want to race.. We still buld briggs on a weekly basis.. And will continue..

I still believe if the flatheads weren't being killed off the clones may have never come to be..
You have to understand when our livelyhood comes into question we are forced to do whatever we can to feed our families..
Does anyone disagree with that ??

I hardly ever have anyone question our prices as for being too high.. But if it happens I will say..

I will do this for you for FREE if you will go to work next week and tell your employer >> Hey man I love my job so much I will work this week for FREE,,, :)
 
Ive got one of Jerry's clones and Ill just say I ran its GUTS out this season. Ive put about 30 or so races on that motor and it was still good enough to run upfront. It needs refreshened and needed it about 2 races before, but oddly my back-up went down, lol. So I continued running it. I changed oil every night and changed valve springs every 3-4 races and made sure they were adjusted properly, and the occasional spark plug, but not too often. Ive never ran an animal, no one runs them around here so I cant comment. But the clone isnt too bad in my opinion. No one is forced to buy motors from big name builders and go to the big money races and spend all the money tires. You can buy the DIY kits fairly cheap, thats the way to go especially if youre just wanting to have fun and stay local and bond with the family or something.
 
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