Are Predators killing the clone?

"J'-remy

Member
he shouldn't be looking for anything its a claim rule its up to the track or other racers to police. once you establish what this or this or this is supposed to be that becomes tech and how many motors are you checking to establish what is or is not legal? once the no go gauges are established its open to blue printing. that's all the flathead ever was the some of the best parts. the cam is the same lift as stock with the backside ground off. are we teching engines or claiming them? its one or the other not both
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
he shouldn't be looking for anything its a claim rule its up to the track or other racers to police. once you establish what this or this or this is supposed to be that becomes tech and how many motors are you checking to establish what is or is not legal? once the no go gauges are established its open to blue printing. that's all the flathead ever was the some of the best parts. the cam is the same lift as stock with the backside ground off. are we teching engines or claiming them? its one or the other not both
It's an easy visual if the jet has been changed, so no gauge is needed.
And just talking with Godspeed they do not allow a jet and spring change, that is for the Blue Grey series, their weekly class is still out of the box with a 5000 rpm max rule with a surge
 

"J'-remy

Member
dyno don claims that going through several engines it could be a 28-31 jet size so what is the tech man looking for? a 28 or nothing above a 31? See how quickly things get out of hand?
 

"J'-remy

Member
It's an easy visual if the jet has been changed, so no gauge is needed.
And just talking with Godspeed they do not allow a jet and spring change, that is for the Blue Grey series, their weekly class is still out of the box with a 5000 rpm max rule with a surge
that's what he told me this last weekend did he change his mind?
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
dyno don claims that going through several engines it could be a 28-31 jet size so what is the tech man looking for? a 28 or nothing above a 31? See how quickly things get out of hand?
Just looking at where the jet goes, it's easy to tell if it's been tampered with, but the claim will remain also.
I asked and was told that was just for the pro predator class offered for the Blue Grey series, but weekly was still OTB 5000 rpm rule
 

"J'-remy

Member
they have been tearing apart predator engines for the past few weeks. Taking off carburetors and taking springs out. The fellow teching the other night (not Tater) but taking apart all the motors told me its a 36 max jet size and the springs are tested to the clone. this was not for the blue grey series this is the past few weeks. clone springs are better than predator and 36 is a larger jet size. what is Tater going to tech the predators too? what is max jet size and spring test? once you establish rules for those two things i am allowed to blueprint those two things? does that not make sense?
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
they have been tearing apart predator engines for the past few weeks. Taking off carburetors and taking springs out. The fellow teching the other night (not Tater) but taking apart all the motors told me its a 36 max jet size and the springs are tested to the clone. this was not for the blue grey series this is the past few weeks. clone springs are better than predator and 36 is a larger jet size. what is Tater going to tech the predators too? what is max jet size and spring test? once you establish rules for those two things i am allowed to blueprint those two things? does that not make sense?
Ronnie is the tech man, and with the guy that preps the track and Jerry leaving Godspeed won't last much longer.
Tater says OTB, rpm rule, and a claim. nothing else can be touched
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
they have been tearing apart predator engines for the past few weeks. Taking off carburetors and taking springs out. The fellow teching the other night (not Tater) but taking apart all the motors told me its a 36 max jet size and the springs are tested to the clone. this was not for the blue grey series this is the past few weeks. clone springs are better than predator and 36 is a larger jet size. what is Tater going to tech the predators too? what is max jet size and spring test? once you establish rules for those two things i am allowed to blueprint those two things? does that not make sense?
Straight from godspeed
Screenshot_20210831-124154_Facebook.jpg
 
Guys… let me chime in, as the tech official for the Burris Blue/Grey series and Ashway speedway.. I don’t not know what the future holds for the Predators, but I can say 100% I am against tech of these engines, history has and will repeat itself because racers are cheaters by nature, if you establish a rule set, even a jet and spring change, you just opened the wallet, policing the class is difficult, I will do visual inspections for alterations such as flywheels and especially muffler boxes, don’t be surprised if you see me cut a muffler box in half, if it’s good then expect me to hand you a new replacement, if not, go home.. I have often thought of ways to prevent hoping these engines up but some builders are just way better than me, the claim rule needs to be more widely used among racers, even maybe tracks draw for competitors to swap engines, but that will only open the door for more crybabies.. that’s why I like the 5000 RPM limit instead of 5500, because you see very little performance gains with modifications below 5000 RPM. Maybe a restrictor plate is the answer, sealed engines don’t seem to be the answer either, look at the GM crate engines.. I don’t know, one problem is predators paying big $$$, this should be an entry level class and big $$$ only brings the tire geniuses into these classes, but I will do my very best to keep this class affordable to the beginner, we have even tossed the idea around of having a entry level class with a claim rule, even open to spectators where you claim the entire kart for $1500 or so, and you just get out and walk away.. they whole point is to try to bring new racers to karting.. I am always open to discussion on the issue so if you have better ideas please reach out to me..
Tater Petty
 

"J'-remy

Member
A little research on race monitor Woodleaf Lee Holt Memorial
predator rules are same as Liberty Raceway Park https://daytonaofdirt.com/predator-rules ( out of the box 5500 rpm small pipe allowed)
$1200 to win Predator 390 $1000 to win clone pro clone 390
top three lap times in Pro Clone Final main 1st 11.834 2nd 11.831 3rd 11.832
top three in Predator race 1st 11.895 2nd 11.791 3rd 11.842

just a little heads up if you plan on racing predator in the Carolinas
 

kmoody6

Member
Only 7 of the 21 made it 50 laps in the $1200 to win race. The 3 karts in the 11 second range were very well built engines that passed the 5500 governor/surge test.
The winner went to the rear on 2 occasions (slid off the track- tires were gone) and passed his way back to the front each time.

Frank's Outdoor Life has a video of this race on YouTube titled "Woodleaf Raceway Park - Lee Holt Memorial
 
I can remember when I first started racing here in Ohio that either you ran a flathead or a 2 cycle. Then the clones came on the scene. They are still running strong in this area.
 
At my local track our predator class rules are
10.8 springs
Can get rid of oil sensor and govener
Run velocity stack and k and n air filter
remove stock fuel tank
header pipe with muffler
Drum clutch
there isnt a jetting rule so you can jet motor however you want
and they just added billet flywheel
Seems to me that this class is more like a clone than an actual OTB Predator
 
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DynoDon

Moderator
As for cheating up the predator there are so many easy ways to tech that out of box engine. First it takes a tech that is paying attention to the class. That means every race the engine gets looked at. Looked at doesn’t mean taking it apart. If the competitors know that it is getting looked at the chances of cheating are minimal. Even the cam can be profiled without removing the engine from the kart. But it takes a qualified knowledgeable person who has been inside of several engines and knows how to use the proper tools for inspection. Stay on top of the engine with week in and week out inspections and cheating is near to nothing. As for the black flag upsetting people that is because there is very little communication between drivers and the expectation of the flagman. There should be a drivers meeting every single week. The flagman should discuss his expectations to the drivers. If that takes place and the flagman has the stones to make the call when an incident takes place there should be no problem. If the call was correct and the driver is still upset and wants to leave let him go. It won’t take long before a good understanding racer to replace him. Simply because the new guy likes what he see’s. With that being said, the flagman needs to be knowledgeable of racing incidents vrs intentional stupidly.
 
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