Are Predators killing the clone?

"J'-remy

Member
if Briggs had the foresight and introduced the LO206 along with the Animal i don't believe you would have ever heard of AKRA, NKA, clone, Predator etc. What kills everything in the end is always $$$$ in both purses and motor price. When I look at MO Predators rules It looks as if the local kart shops are making the rules as a billet flywheel and a drum clutch in the same ruleset is ridiculous,. the motor comes with a gas tank there is no performance advantage to a remote tank top plate and a fuel pump. just looks like somebody wants to sell somebody something. once you give it to them you can never take it back. give them a small pipe, its small pipe forever and if you give them a small pipe today why not a big pipe tomorrow or a cam or a port job etc. etc.
The fact that a 212 predator from harbor freight might become extinct with the arrival of the 223 predator just may be a light at the end of the tunnel.
 
anything at harbor freight that had a 212 on it in the 7-8 hp range now has a 223 engine. there are no new 212 generators or power washers they are 223 now
Give it some time because within the next year the 223 will replace the 212 on the shelves at harbor freight. But it seems right now that the 223 wouldn't have to replace the 212 very much because there aren't many 212s for sale anymore. Tillotson and other motor manufacturers have the 223 so harbor freight is just following behind them.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
Give it some time because within the next year the 223 will replace the 212 on the shelves at harbor freight. But it seems right now that the 223 wouldn't have to replace the 212 very much because there aren't many 212s for sale anymore. Tillotson and other motor manufacturers have the 223 so harbor freight is just following behind them.
Well they all get the engines from the same 3 factories in China.
Time to move on to the 206 for that class, shame to, because karting will lose all kinds of people, again
 
if Briggs had the foresight and introduced the LO206 along with the Animal i don't believe you would have ever heard of AKRA, NKA, clone, Predator etc. What kills everything in the end is always $$$$ in both purses and motor price. When I look at MO Predators rules It looks as if the local kart shops are making the rules as a billet flywheel and a drum clutch in the same ruleset is ridiculous,. the motor comes with a gas tank there is no performance advantage to a remote tank top plate and a fuel pump. just looks like somebody wants to sell somebody something. once you give it to them you can never take it back. give them a small pipe, its small pipe forever and if you give them a small pipe today why not a big pipe tomorrow or a cam or a port job etc. etc.
The fact that a 212 predator from harbor freight might become extinct with the arrival of the 223 predator just may be a light at the end of the tunnel.
From a safety standpoint, I can see someone arguing the billet flywheel and remote tank. I understand that thousands of races have been run without issue. While occurrence is low the severity factor, if there were an issue, could be quite high.
 

"J'-remy

Member
From a safety standpoint, I can see someone arguing the billet flywheel and remote tank. I understand that thousands of races have been run without issue. While occurrence is low the severity factor, if there were an issue, could be quite high.
predator is the lowest rpm motor of them all. the old flathead is doing much higher rpm with a stock flywheel. never saw a briggs or a predator flywheel let go. somebody's upset that harbor freight is taking 'their' dollar. My local kart shop scoffs at the predator he would rather you get on his clone and his maintenance schedule (refresh/rebuilds). when there are 12 predators to 3 clones I can see why the kart shop wants to push fuel tanks, top plates, springs, jets, fuel pumps, exhaust pipes, and hose and then flywheels. you can't buy those at harbor freight.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
predator is the lowest rpm motor of them all. the old flathead is doing much higher rpm with a stock flywheel. never saw a briggs or a predator flywheel let go. somebody's upset that harbor freight is taking 'their' dollar. My local kart shop scoffs at the predator he would rather you get on his clone and his maintenance schedule (refresh/rebuilds). when there are 12 predators to 3 clones I can see why the kart shop wants to push fuel tanks, top plates, springs, jets, fuel pumps, exhaust pipes, and hose and then flywheels. you can't buy those at harbor freight.
And that's why some builders have no problem building illegal predators....agenda
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
the kart shops 'agenda' would be better served pushing the tracks to run lo206 instead of predators with billet flywheels or cheating them up on the side.
The agenda is to kill an engine that they don't make money from.
Building illegal OTB predators pushes that agenda.
The 206 hasn't done anything but grow in price since builders got involved.
I said it 20 years ago, when too many people make a GOOD living from a hobby, the hobby suffers
 
I'm sorry...I just have to laugh. Just who are these kart shops and engine builders making "GOOD" money selling the L206? Do you have a list?
I can promise you that as a builder, I can make MUCH more money building blueprinted clones and Predators than I ever could with the L206. LOL
If a guy is getting $600-$650 for a "stock" Predator, trust me, he's making considerably more money on his labor than anyone tuning an L206 ever will.
Do the math. Add up the parts, base engine, hours, not to mention overhead, etc, and tell me what a "fair" living should be selling each of these engines.
For that matter, how much should your local kart shop be making?
This should be good. Most everything in the kart industry works off of a 10-15% margin. Most of us make our money on labor, myself included. Not complaining, I love what I do, but I could make more money (with benefits) working at McDonald's or Burger King.

As far as the price increases with the L206 -- I don't see it as out of line. In 10 years, they've increased roughly $100. That's $10 per year, or about 5%. The cost of most consumer goods increases at that rate. The cost of all of the bolt-on items (chain guard, exhaust pipe, throttle kit, etc, has increased about the same.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
32 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I'm sorry...I just have to laugh. Just who are these kart shops and engine builders making "GOOD" money selling the L206? Do you have a list?
I can promise you that as a builder, I can make MUCH more money building blueprinted clones and Predators than I ever could with the L206. LOL
If a guy is getting $600-$650 for a "stock" Predator, trust me, he's making considerably more money on his labor than anyone tuning an L206 ever will.
Do the math. Add up the parts, base engine, hours, not to mention overhead, etc, and tell me what a "fair" living should be selling each of these engines.
For that matter, how much should your local kart shop be making?
This should be good. Most everything in the kart industry works off of a 10-15% margin. Most of us make our money on labor, myself included. Not complaining, I love what I do, but I could make more money (with benefits) working at McDonald's or Burger King.

As far as the price increases with the L206 -- I don't see it as out of line. In 10 years, they've increased roughly $100. That's $10 per year, or about 5%. The cost of most consumer goods increases at that rate. The cost of all of the bolt-on items (chain guard, exhaust pipe, throttle kit, etc, has increased about the same.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
32 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
We heard the overhead during the flathead days.
Map on 206 is 599.00, how much you sell yours for? Fact is it's a sealed engine, shouldn't be anything to do except take it out of the box.
Plenty of builders building OTB predators charging 6-700 for them.
And don't give me that you'd make more working at McDonald's that's a load
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
A quick look a 206 ready to go without a clutch $1200.00.
Another builder ready to go including inferno clutch 1599.00?
Now tell me these shops aren't charging good money.
I won't say which ones, but they are out there.
All for an engine they aren't even giving 599.00 for.
 

paulkish

old fart
... and

Sometimes you don't have to have the best product to prove your worth:

ya just have to have the highest price and your pick of the best drivers and operations to discount too !

Selling engines is knowing where your product needs to go.
The selection of a racer to discount to who runs in the back and gets your wizz bang engine then moves up into contention is what sells engines.
Having the fast guys on your stuff local racing is what sells engines, not national attention or being in national publications.

The Eagles flying on your stuff doesn't sell engines, wanting to fly with Eagles does.

that's racin ... :)
 

"J'-remy

Member
... and

Sometimes you don't have to have the best product to prove your worth:

ya just have to have the highest price and your pick of the best drivers and operations to discount too !

Selling engines is knowing where your product needs to go.
The selection of a racer to discount to who runs in the back and gets your wizz bang engine then moves up into contention is what sells engines.
Having the fast guys on your stuff local racing is what sells engines, not national attention or being in national publications.

The Eagles flying on your stuff doesn't sell engines, wanting to fly with Eagles does.

that's racin ... :)
this is not what the local kart counts are saying. the only time you see good clone kart counts is when there are money races or points racing. the $99 motor package has become the big class as of late. the issue becomes the cheating as any rule set will just repeat the clone. the purse of that Woodleaf race just goes to show the tracks are putting up money in the predator class and the pros are running them too (because of its popularity). the lap times show nobody is playing by the rules, and these are big names who are up on their tire game. its obvious everyone in that race had a built motor, when the predator is $1300 what's the point in having two classes?
 
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