Are Predators killing the clone?

Preditor 390 @ blairsville has the highest kart count easily and climbing. Clone guys are regularly bolting on a preditor, with 18+ karts in that class the payout is higher then the clone classes.
 
At our track here in Ohio we run OTB but they also run stock appearing. They are spending $1000 + on predators.
 
Locally it was thought that the Predators would be good for the Junior classes as it would help build the younger classes back up. We have averaged about 10 karts per junior Predator class for the last 3 seasons with a sealed Predator program with an rpm rule. Over that time it has been seen that these now $140 engines aren’t so reliable. Some parents have already made the move and purchased NKA clones for 2022. I have a Jr Restricted Clone driver who I help, he has 2 wins this season and runs top 3 every week against some BIG name engines with a $600 Box Stock Project Clone I built for him. It has shown many that you don’t have to have a $1200-$1500 clone to be competitive.
 
Comparing a Predator @ $150 to an L206 @ $1000 isn't quite apples to apples now, is it? I'll agree that the L206 is considerably more expensive @ $550 out of the box than a Predator from Harbor Freight. But for $1000 you're getting a race-ready, dyno tuned, L206 with ALL the bolt-on components. There are builders offering built Predators for $650 currently, and that's without all the bolt-on stuff.
I can't speak for every other shop out there, but our L206 pricing has gone up around $200 in 10 years....that's not bad at all in my opinion. A good rule set from the inception of the program helped curb costs, upgrades, updates, etc.
Our rebuilds are $100 + parts. Generally that runs $50 in parts and consumables, so you're @ $150 for a complete rebuild. That's not too bad for a race engine. If you want it dyno tuned, we charge $100 (incl. fuel & oil) for any brand of engine we tune.
As far as popularity of the L206, they have totally revived 4 cycle karting in the sprint world. We have a lot of dirt oval tracks in the midwest that have embraced it as well, but it's been tough to get it established in the south & east for obvious reasons.
The L206 has also changed the scene in parallel forms of racing such as 1/4 midgets, winged outlaw karts, & mini-wedge cars.
It's really not a bad engine program at all - 10 year old engines that are still legal and competitive today.

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I hate to say it but NO. to the average racer it's "you can race this one for $200 or you can race this one for $1000.00 " the 200 dollar on is raced has a big local following , the 1000.00 one don't" sorry even for a 650.00 or $800 cheater predator you still ahead of the l206.
 
Clones were great with small pipe after that it went down hill. Tracks need to have the same rules no tracks run the same predator rules at one track no hemis another you buy their sealed motor. We have run at blairsviile a couple times with the sealed motor and they had 16 plus karts and good close racing. We ran a blairsville sealed motor at penns creek and got 3rd missed alittle on serup.we couldnt do that at some tracks because theres no real tech. Leave them otb with govenor.
 
The real problem with true out of the box is that they are all over the place. I have put three on a dyno. one was ok two was a dud and three was a beast. not fair across the board. some people may cheat their motor only to get it to be the same as one off the shelf that's just better by chance.
 
"Are predators killing the clone?" - that's a tough one to quantify. I would say the reason people chose predator over clone is twofold. 1) Predator typically pays the same (100% payback to the top 1/3 of the field) so why not enter the class with the largest kart count in hopes of a bigger pay day 2) the engines are cheap for the casual or entry level racer. A possible 3rd reason would be predator racing is much closer and more competitive. On a clone at Godspeed you make the field look foolish when you hit on tires and they don't. You can still pull a gap at Ashway but you usually finish on the same straightaway.

If the track regularly incentivizes the 375 clone class I'd bet there would be more people running clone over the predator. I don't believe the track cares what class each person races as long as they show up at their track and race.
 
"Are predators killing the clone?" - that's a tough one to quantify. I would say the reason people chose predator over clone is twofold. 1) Predator typically pays the same (100% payback to the top 1/3 of the field) so why not enter the class with the largest kart count in hopes of a bigger pay day 2) the engines are cheap for the casual or entry level racer. A possible 3rd reason would be predator racing is much closer and more competitive. On a clone at Godspeed you make the field look foolish when you hit on tires and they don't. You can still pull a gap at Ashway but you usually finish on the same straightaway.

If the track regularly incentivizes the 375 clone class I'd bet there would be more people running clone over the predator. I don't believe the track cares what class each person races as long as they show up at their track and race.
I ask this question because I just bought a new kart and the set up between a clone kart and a predator karts are so far apart I thought it would be a hassle to change it from week to week. now my fear is I set up for the clone show up to the track and there is nobody to race. Curious if I travel to Dawgwood or GKP? or are the clone counts drying up there too. or just bring the clone out for points races and money races (although I loath money races for the way it brings out the Mr Hyde in people) Is this the beginning to the extinction of the clone?
 
I ask this question because I just bought a new kart and the set up between a clone kart and a predator karts are so far apart I thought it would be a hassle to change it from week to week. now my fear is I set up for the clone show up to the track and there is nobody to race. Curious if I travel to Dawgwood or GKP? or are the clone counts drying up there too. or just bring the clone out for points races and money races (although I loath money races for the way it brings out the Mr Hyde in people) Is this the beginning to the extinction of the clone?
Clone kart count was not an issue at Dawgwood any time I've been there this year. I watched a video of the light race from last weekend at Dawgwood and I think I counted 15 or so karts. Last week could have been a tough draw in East TN with Clay City and Isom both having good payouts in the clone classes. Others may have traveled to Dawgwood for their series race wanting to prepare for their big race on the 21st.

You'll have to make friends with the clone racers and see who is racing and where they're racing at. The 425 clone class at Ashway does that fairly well as you see a few karts one week and a dozen karts the next.
 
I highly doubt its the beginning of the end for the clone .
The current political/health/cash flow problem is more likely the reason for the slump .
 
Clones seem to be attracted to money races a lot more than to weekly shows probably because to run up front at either these guys are at the top of their game with pretty new karts and a ton of tires, not to mention a top shelf motor.
 
Never seen predators or clones run locally where I'm at. I'd like to see that in person. If not predator, what is the most dominate clone out there? The Tilly?
 
Locally predator became who paid the most. Last year it was good, then this year a bunch of clone guys stepped down and cheated up their predators. The track did nothing, and has done nothing to stop it. Many of the predator guys have gone to clones just because it is a teched class. I didn't have the bank roll to run clone, and I wasn't going to cheat up my predator. That was part of my decision to take a step back for a season or two.
I race at the same track jaymancds races at and I race predator. He is right our predator class is so cheated over it isn’t even funny. There are some motors where you can actually hear the difference in tones of exhaust. I understand that headers and valve lash and a bunch of stuff comes into play but I can tel you you can hear how many motors are illegal. I have a 100% legal predator and i am keeping up with the front because I am on good tires and have a very strong LEGAL motor. I realize this is the same at a lot of tracks but this just ticks me off that the track won’t do anything about it
 
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I run clones and predators . Its hard for me to get many karts as it is , because I run my races on Sunday's . I have the usual clone classes , and 2 predator classes . OTB with a couple of can do's and an Outlaw Class as I call it , that started out to be a sealed class from a local racing parts store . He sold several of the engines , but only get 1 or 2 every now and then , so I had to open it up to let other non sealed engines in . It has a stock flywheel , but AKRA Box Stock rules pretty much for the carb , big pipe . no gov and stock cam . I have a PAC class that is starting to catch on , and the OTB predators are doing pretty well also . My problem now is that I have a ton of classes , which I didn't want . Kids classes of both , including plates . I can't combine them , because the predator engines are stock and the clones would eat them alive . Not to mention 2 kids classes of 79cc predators , 4 to 7 and 8 to 11 . Time to start axing some classes ..
 
I hate to say it but NO. to the average racer it's "you can race this one for $200 or you can race this one for $1000.00 " the 200 dollar on is raced has a big local following , the 1000.00 one don't" sorry even for a 650.00 or $800 cheater predator you still ahead of the l206.
Maybe, except that you'd be on a level playing field and legal.
 
Maybe, except that you'd be on a level playing field and legal.
But that would take all the fun out of cheating ;). I have no doubt that the tech problems most tracks currently have is that they don't want to tech that hard to keep kart counts up. Same issue with the black flag. tick off to many people and they will find somewhere else to race. The problem with this logic is that you run off all of your good racers, and all you are left with are guys that want to tear stuff up and cheat.

In my opinion, it is better to not have a rule, than to have a rule, and not enforce it. Got a fuel rule? Test fuel. Got a cam rule? Pull some engines apart. Got a no-prep rule? Send samples to the lab. Don't have rules that you don't enforce, because then you make it hard to enforce the ones you do.
 
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