Are Predators killing the clone?
- Thread starter "J'-remy
- Start date
meracer9
Site Supporter
That’s becoming another problem, availability. Try finding 4. Trying finding 1 right now. Locally they’ve been sold out in stores for 2 months. I know several who have placed orders online and after afew days the orders have been canceled.
mike97760
Site Supporter
I would like to see tracks with pure stock Predator classes make it so if you're running that class you cannot run other classes that night. Try to keep it low level. Around here we see guys who have the best of everything running clones, SBO or whatever and dragging out a Predator class kart so they can win that too.
"J'-remy
Member
we have that happen here too but they don't always win. Some people think that because it's cheap that we must be easy meat.
"J'-remy
Member
thing is the LO206 isn't in stock either. or locally available.
MO Predator Racer
Member
I think Carlson has been getting so LO206’s. I don’t know if he has them anymore but I know he got a few pallets.
fatboy1dh
Member
He's out like the rest of us. You cant judge an engine by its availability right now (predator, clone, or Briggs). Otherwise, we would be judging tires, gears, wheels, anything else in the world that way too.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
I've seen this play out so many times over the years that it's not funny.But that would take all the fun out of cheating. I have no doubt that the tech problems most tracks currently have is that they don't want to tech that hard to keep kart counts up. Same issue with the black flag. tick off to many people and they will find somewhere else to race. The problem with this logic is that you run off all of your good racers, and all you are left with are guys that want to tear stuff up and cheat.
In my opinion, it is better to not have a rule, than to have a rule, and not enforce it. Got a fuel rule? Test fuel. Got a cam rule? Pull some engines apart. Got a no-prep rule? Send samples to the lab. Don't have rules that you don't enforce, because then you make it hard to enforce the ones you do.
Promoter wants to be nice and send everyone home happy (no late nights in the tech barn.)
Racers (and builders) take advantage of this and push engines to the point of being stock appearings, only to run off the racers who want to run legal stuff (and at other tracks.) Pretty soon half the field is running cheated up engines (no matter what it is, flatheads to predators) and those that are legal start running elsewhere or sell out. Soon after the track becomes known as one with no tech, and soon after it goes out.
Then these cheated up engines start showing up at other tracks, and the whole area is muddied up. There are turn-key karts and whole operations sold with illegal engines (unbeknownst to the new owner) that end up back at the same track or another several states away.
Nothing new here.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Yea, we're out of stock on new engines again. Hopefullly we'll be getting more in soon.
jaymancds
Member
Anecdotal, but our local track that had an average of 150 karts per night last season just ran their biggest race of the year with added payouts and didn't draw 100. The same race last year had over 175 karts.
They've been down on numbers all year, and people have started racing elsewhere. Its a good track, just no tech and no black flag.
Prorookie34
Member
What is it about the claimer rule that i'm not understanding?
Especially for the stock engine classes.
Why does this not work everywhere and every track do it?
Especially for the stock engine classes.
Why does this not work everywhere and every track do it?
Burris Racer
Member
What do you think the primary reason is that somebody would claim another engine in a stock class? The only times I've seen it done is when the "stock" engine was suspected to not be stock. Therefore you're basically buying a cheated up engine that has little to no value to the honest racer.
Prorookie34
Member
Sounds like it would benefit every honest racer, if all honest racers brought claimer money instead of 10 backup engines, and buy up these cheaters and either switch them back or sell them for what they are.
The rule itself deters cheaters throwing boo koo bucks into stock engines
Let 1 get bought up one time, if the driver doesn't show back up, you didnt want to race that fool anyway.
I respect your opinion, and appreciate your input though.
Prorookie34
Member
If it's just a "better engine" OTB then whoever was claimed one week, can just re-claim it the next. Until people start cheating other ways lol then claim those parts too.
jaymancds
Member
Most claim rules have a limit on how many times you can claim somebody through the season. Most are twice. This means that you run out of opportunities quickly, and as such, nobody ever claims anything because of "what about next week".
Burris Racer
Member
I think we agree what we'd like to see on the track (everyone show up legal and race). I was responding to the question "Why does this not work everywhere and every track do it?". My thought is with your methodology the burden is being placed on the racer to keep their competitors legal. Some folks might not mind but others will. In the 2 instances that I have seen a stock class predator claimed it was b/c it was suspected to be illegal. 1 of the instances the claimer wanted to never have to compete against that suspected cheated up engine again so it was bought. Because it was thought to be illegal it was set on a shelf and never ran. In the other case, it was more of a "if you can't beat them join them" situation. There was no tech only a claim rule. So that racer figured he might as well have an advantaged every once in a while too. If it's that obvious I would hope the track would claim it to remove it from circulation.
I don't know what your definition of boo koo bucks are. Several people have the know how to modify these engines and can have a significant advantage. Will some racers take the chance of being claimed and loosing $100-200? My guess is yes, some racers will.
I think the claimer rule is good in theory but also has its downside.
*Side note* I see discussions on predator engines regularly and do my best to not engage. There are several different theories why they exist, what the best rule package is, and what the payout should be. Some will say it's a budget class while others will argue it's a beginner class. Some tracks have "X" RPM rule while other tracks have "Y" RPM rule and others have no RPM rule but a gear rule. The list goes on and on about the right way to run this class. I don't know that there will be an agreed upon rule set. I just tell people to know what they're getting into before they speak of somebody must be cheating or proposing a change to the track rules. As the original posted noted, it's typically the largest class in weekly racing in East TN so they must be doing something right to keep people coming back week after week.
Bob Evans
Administrator
On the claimer deal, there are people who can disassemble an untouched motor and add a few personal touches, a bit of a plateau hone, a little twist on the crank gear, some select deburring, ect. And put the same motor back together with the original parts, and the motor will perform significently better. Are these folks cheaters? I don't think so, they're just willing to work a little harder.
Also, I'd be curious as to what percentage of a winning combination most folks attribute to the motor. Yet, the biggest thing everyone seems to rail against are motors. They seem to think that motor costs are killing the sport, like a $400 set of tires has nothing to do with it.
I've said many times, if tire rim widths were required to be the same as tire widths, everything would become much simpler and probably less expensive.
Also, I'd be curious as to what percentage of a winning combination most folks attribute to the motor. Yet, the biggest thing everyone seems to rail against are motors. They seem to think that motor costs are killing the sport, like a $400 set of tires has nothing to do with it.
I've said many times, if tire rim widths were required to be the same as tire widths, everything would become much simpler and probably less expensive.
MO Predator Racer
Member
At my local track they were teching some of the predators last night. The local track promoter said they are randomly choosing 3 classes and that they will tech the top 2 from that class. If one of the top 2 is illegal they will tech the person that finished 3rd.