Track Tac

---ARL--- (Affordable Racing League)

I keep tell n ya a Bone Stock Clone Race Ready add clutch $220 bucks I don't care how much ya look at your not gonna beat then, plus then as the racer moves up so does the motor, just keep your rule for that class stock, Done so simple it's comical.
 
Just a idea here but make the rules then tech the top 3 each week. If your outside the rules its a dq plan and simple. If the top 3 don't want to do tech its a dq. I just started running this year don't see much tech at all. I think if each track would do that it would help. I don't mind spending money to a point I have maybe 2000 spent this year to start. I will spend about 1500 next year max. Still cheaper than golf and more fun. But the bottom line is to check top 3 each race. If they know they will get dq lose there winnings they will not go outside the rules
 
i would like to know how an engine can bring back racing to the budget racer?
guess i look at it a little differently and look where i spent most of the money at.
 
Stout racing...Lewis hey I got your number I will give you a ring this week.

I think one thing we can all agree on is bone stock...I would only change the stock muffler to a small header with RLV muffler to keep the heat away from your arm. I have other ideas for the class I just want to keep them under wraps for a little longer...
 
The main track i race at, which is J&M Motorsports here in central Ky, has a great set of box stock classes and rules that keep racers coming and keep them happy, we still get new racers at the track every once in awhile also. The rules they have are simple, bone stock clone with stock airbox and breather, stock timing, stock or billet steel flywheel, weenie pipe, shoe clutch, even stock 28 main and 19 low speed jets, everything is 100% stock besides the weenie pipe, they also allow any of the CL1 cams and any BSP cams, nothing else, and this is the closest racing you can get. They will tech the top 3 or top 5 anytime there is a couple hundred dollars on the line, other than that, we just race for 100% payback and its still fun, you dont hear people complaining or whining about motors being illegal or stronger than theirs or any of that unless it is completely obvious that someone is doing something wrong, which iv never really seen at this track. They uses to have a good turnout of AKRA Clone classes, but last several months it is basically all box stock racing, no AKRA motors. This track uses its own rule set compared to other tracks in the state, maybe that is why it works so well here.

If these rules were implemented at other tracks, i would say you would get a great turn out of racers and people wanting to get back into racing. You can buy a new stock clone BSP motor for $130-140 most places, add your top plate, fuel pump, chain guard, and weenie pipe, maybe a better set of 10.8 valve springs, clutch, and flywheel all for around $200-250 or less and go racing. Most of those parts you have to add, everyone already has in their garage/trailer like clutches, chain guards and pipes. It does not take a builder prepared motor to win stock class races!
 
Dallas Mini Speedway said:
Stout racing...Lewis hey I got your number I will give you a ring this week.

I think one thing we can all agree on is bone stock...I would only change the stock muffler to a small header with RLV muffler to keep the heat away from your arm. I have other ideas for the class I just want to keep them under wraps for a little longer...
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The Clone I refer has that done has mini muffler on it.
 
i like the way this is going with the bone stock class (changing only the header). but i would extend this to three classes.....bone stock, then two steps up....maybe a limited stock where you can add a new breather and springs, then a super stock class where you can add a cam....but as with anything, it will bring out those that will tweak the rules to better themselves. those will have to suffer the DQ conciquences!! keep a tight rein on the class or classes and watch the kart count grow!! but if you offer only one class, then it has to have a move up or move out way for the racers to advance...otherwise, you might get into a rut like we are now...no changes to the motor, but you have 20 weight classes and trouble keeping it all together! i think that if you do get this class going, set ONE weight...say 350 pounds total...kart and driver...this gives everyone a chance...but it keeps you from having to monitor different weights inside of one class of motor.....we do it with our stock appearing and this year we averaged 10-15 karts per race....
 
Here's a real 'brain-*art' for the morning too 'think' about (good tread goin here)...."How Important is it for you too Win?" Is it important 'enough' for you too 'cough-up' $$$ for your own 'tech'?? Hey...we are reaching for 'way's'....give it some thought and open up the brain cells! We can elaborate on this!! New ground needs too be broken to save this class and karting in general!!! Everything that has been stated previously in this thread has a 'Yes' And a 'No' and we need to find the 'common denominator' too solve the problem...we know that! Here's an example....The 'winner(s)' shall be 'tech'd' regardless. however, if they chose too recieve 'points...$$$$....what have you' they "MUST-PAY" for it. Also, if...winner(s) are caught 'cheating' (non knlt-picking kind) they should be 'fined' and paid-up before being allowed too race again. Yes, some 'book-keeping' will be required, but everything has a price and this 'cud be' done at every level in karting.......(blast away)....jmo
 
ain't gonna blast ya screamer....but you are 100 percent right...we, meaning all of us, have become complacent in teching....boots to backsides needs to happen more often...the nitpicking comes from racer b thinking that racer a is getting away with cheating...doesn't matter that racer b is illegal, it's racer a who is cheating!! and he whines......
 
There needs to be payout and along with that Tech at any local track, 60% payout for a local track works both way's and is Fair both way's, If any track cannot handle paying tech out of the 40% then they simply need to cut payout to 50% not charge the winners for winning, That would never work.
 
racing promotor said:
There needs to be payout and along with that Tech at any local track, 60% payout for a local track works both way's and is Fair both way's, If any track cannot handle paying tech out of the 40% then they simply need to cut payout to 50% not charge the winners for winning, That would never work.
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rp....IF, you are addressing post#51....we are not on the same page...and, I HATE too see/hear those last (4) words...:) Note: "I did say....IF!"
 
Lots of ideas and talk about "tech". I brought up the rental engine idea to eliminate tech. I'd say go with the LO206 engine because they dont need anything but oil changes and would last for years, a clone may be cheaper to purchase but the maintenance would soon pass the briggs price. (lets not start a war about the 206 vs clone $$ ok)
Forget tech, period. I'm still kinda new to karting but have seen karts fail tech and get a whisper and wink to not bring it back. I've seen the same tech guy be heavy handed with no go gauges to get that cheater who under normal circumstances would be 100% legal. I've seen a tech guy "bragging" about how dq'ed the entire field for head gaskets. My point is tech isnt always equal so if you take that out of the equation there's one less thing to worry about. The only way to eliminate tech is to control the engines and rotate them weekly.
If you buy a bunch I'd even bet Briggs would cut you a deal.
 
Bonanza said:
Lots of ideas and talk about "tech". I brought up the rental engine idea to eliminate tech. I'd say go with the LO206 engine because they dont need anything but oil changes and would last for years, a clone may be cheaper to purchase but the maintenance would soon pass the briggs price. (lets not start a war about the 206 vs clone $$ ok)
Forget tech, period. I'm still kinda new to karting but have seen karts fail tech and get a whisper and wink to not bring it back. I've seen the same tech guy be heavy handed with no go gauges to get that cheater who under normal circumstances would be 100% legal. I've seen a tech guy "bragging" about how dq'ed the entire field for head gaskets. My point is tech isnt always equal so if you take that out of the equation there's one less thing to worry about. The only way to eliminate tech is to control the engines and rotate them weekly.
If you buy a bunch I'd even bet Briggs would cut you a deal.
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We all live in a fantacy world if any form of competition can be thought too have 'no-tech'! (ie: baseball...umpires; football/wrestling...referee's; tennis...line judges; classroom's...teachers etc etc...) "Golf" is the closest competition we have to have 'no-tech'!
 
The old Sportsman Class at Dallas. Maxxis 5inch Whites. Mini Pipe RLV or Briggs Muffler. Stock Original Air Filter. Police the carb size Cam and Springs. It's doable especially if you claim an engine. Give the winner the choice tech or claim. If that engine wins cosistently on other karts than it needs tech.
 
sCREamnClones said:
rp....IF, you are addressing post#51....we are not on the same page...and, I HATE too see/hear those last (4) words...:) Note: "I did say....IF!"
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I think were more on the same page than you realize, I've be dealing with local racers for 12 yrs now my point is by doing what your suggesting the racers look at it like there paying directly vs yes there still paying but in-directly, that's why I'm say n it would never work atleast work any maintain a good count, your correct there needs to be tech just cost to racers needs to look more like it's just cost of doing business, not your taking how much of my money towards WHAT !!

So I here ya on If, I'm just being REAL IF anyone was to put it in play !!
 
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TheFact said:
I'm the Briggs guy so disclaimer stated. Here is what I don't get and this isn't attacking, isn't intended to be confrontational but to better understand. What makes anyone think the Predator will be any different then what you have? The quality is the same and the infrastructure making it is the same (hundreds of vendors all making similar but not identical parts). In addition, the engine will continue to change as no one outside of racing cares whats inside. It's sales are driven soley on cost as there is no brand name. This group has already experienced this on this very engine. I don't get that or why you would feel that this is any different?

Then I will ask Mikey a specific question: Why wouldn't an engine that is cheaper in the short run AND long run (because it was actually engineered for racing) that can be ran competitively right from the box be a great answer? Is it because it doesn't fit your business model or your want to tinker inthe grey areas? For 4 years the 206 has proven to win at the highest levels of the sport from the box. That isn't a fluke, it's simply because the engine is built to a specific rule set, the tech is defined, and controls from the rpm range to the jetting to using a single head casting to hand checking EVERY engine are in place.

At the end of the day the 206 isn't for everyone, I get that, but it certainly is for a lot of racers. I just see 'groundhogs day' starting over hear and I promise you that basing anything off of an engine that is a moving target will put this group right back to where the clone is today. There simply is no difference.

How do you really feel that the predator will get you any where cheaper? Mikey, if you think it will TELL them WHY. For those that thinking about the 206 ask someone racing it. Take whatever bias I might have out of it. I'm sooo good with that! :)
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In only comparing the option Predator vs Lo-206 your spot on, I questioned that in post 14 and acknowledge I'm no Lo-206 ( mostly because they just never took off here, and a few other reasons but I'll save that for a later thread). At the cost there acknowledging for the Predator vs cost of Lo-206 that deals a NO BRAINER.
 
it's not the performance or reliability factor in this. it's the initial cost in obtaining the engine. you can work with the predator to keep costs from sky rocketing all at once....just as you can put the onus on getting the LO206 if you want to race. the difference is what a racer has to pull out of thier pocket at the start to make it work. i'm not a fan for or against the engine...haven't seen one run nor have i been behind the wheel of one.

the object is "affordable racing league" with the key word being affordable. you want to tailor your class to what and who is around you that you want to entice to race. the LO206 is an option that can be explored. BUT! if you live in the area like around here in middle georgia and you spring an initial cost of $600.00 on them before they've even pulled the rope, then your going to get backlash....people right now just can't afford the initial layout of that much!! lets get real here and not bring up the "if you can't afford it, then you shouldn't race" stuff...it's an old arguement and we won't be on here if we didn't want to race.

but again, the idea isn't to put forth one engine and give an "either or" ultimatum....the idea is to develop a set of rules that everyone can live by that maximizes the number of participants and minimizes the initial cost. that's what affordability is all about....not what you can get someone to buy, but what they don't have to buy to be able to race. if the answer is to buy 20 predators and each team rents them to race, then so be it....soon you may have ti buy another 20 jsut to get everyone out on the track....

again, it's not the overall or long term cost...it's the short term "pull it out of your pocket" that will kill the LO206...

my thoughts are also that you can purchase a race engine from say arc racing (thier you build it one) for $235.00 or $330 with the flywheel...specs are already listed....this is cheaper than the LO206....and a good strong set of rules to keep things equal will go a long way......add a $100 (at the most) drum clutch and $50.00 for a header and your still under $500.00
 
racing promotor said:
I think were more on the same page than you realize, I've be dealing with local racers for 12 yrs now my point is by doing what your suggesting the racers look at it like there paying directly vs yes there still paying but in-directly, that's why I'm say n it would never work atleast work any maintain a good count, your correct there needs to be tech just cost to racers needs to look more like it's just cost of doing business, not your taking how much of my money towards WHAT !!

So I here ya on If, I'm just being REAL IF anyone was to but it in play !!
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It's good too know/hear we're on the same page! I think it really comes down to 'how' the picture is painted and the presentation of it. I'm also w/u on 'working w/the locals'. I swear, if you (me/we) cud change the local 'paradyne'....we can change the World!!
 
One last time a stock Clone Race READY all but clutch with mini muffler, from Jerry Dover He'll DYNO all motors for parity, you keep the rules very Simple ya don't touch it other than change springs or in case of a failure, you now have a better graps on how you want the rules BECAUSE you've learned from what the current Clone rules are so again SIMPLE don't let it get to that point AGAIN.

BRAND NEW MOTORS for $220 bucks you can throw ideas at the wall ALL day all month for that matter, to get what EVERYONE seems to be looking for LOW Cost but dependable, your not going to beat it.

Before ya say it, you don't want to be forced to use one builder or why should 1 guy profit, well I'll tell ya why, that way ya got the best chance at equal motors plus He's not PROFITING Squat he's doing it for the love of the sport.
 
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