Track Tac

---ARL--- (Affordable Racing League)

TheFact said:
I'm the Briggs guy so disclaimer stated. Here is what I don't get and this isn't attacking, isn't intended to be confrontational but to better understand. What makes anyone think the Predator will be any different then what you have? The quality is the same and the infrastructure making it is the same (hundreds of vendors all making similar but not identical parts). In addition, the engine will continue to change as no one outside of racing cares whats inside. It's sales are driven soley on cost as there is no brand name. This group has already experienced this on this very engine. I don't get that or why you would feel that this is any different?

Then I will ask Mikey a specific question: Why wouldn't an engine that is cheaper in the short run AND long run (because it was actually engineered for racing) that can be ran competitively right from the box be a great answer? Is it because it doesn't fit your business model or your want to tinker inthe grey areas? For 4 years the 206 has proven to win at the highest levels of the sport from the box. That isn't a fluke, it's simply because the engine is built to a specific rule set, the tech is defined, and controls from the rpm range to the jetting to using a single head casting to hand checking EVERY engine are in place.

At the end of the day the 206 isn't for everyone, I get that, but it certainly is for a lot of racers. I just see 'groundhogs day' starting over hear and I promise you that basing anything off of an engine that is a moving target will put this group right back to where the clone is today. There simply is no difference.

How do you really feel that the predator will get you any where cheaper? Mikey, if you think it will TELL them WHY. For those that thinking about the 206 ask someone racing it. Take whatever bias I might have out of it. I'm sooo good with that! :)
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My .02 cents.....The 206 versa's the 'BOX STOCK Clone it a TOTAL crap shoot w/favor going to the 206 becuz of the 'rules'! The 'Key' word w/regard to Clone is 'Tinker'. How does anybody stop a run-away train that defies crash after crash and continues on its way? I do think that the Predator is a runaway oasis for those that simply got tired of playing "BSP Bingo".....me too, but....I went with 'Pro-Clone' my-way! Predator is as far off line in oneway as BSP is the other.
 
One more time just set the rules. Tech the top 3 each week if there not in the rules its a dq. Enforce the rules. Just like anything else if you want it to work enforce the rule don't make new ones.
 
thanks paul...that just about sums it all up. too much of the "i'll let it go this time, wink-wink, nudge-nudge....don't bring it back, wink-wink"... if i was a track promoter and found the tech person doing this....they would be fired on the spot. enforcement of the rules start with the track and if they take a lazy attitude about teching.....well, lets jsut say that i wouldn't be racing there!!
 
Let me address that " don't bring it back, wink, wink" statement. ( not picking on ya, just wish to address). In my dvd I am making for tech, I address that exact thing. For example; during tech I notice that the nipple area of the muffler where it threads into the pipe is a tad bit damaged. The inside measurement is .685. The .685 is met well over 3/4 of the way around but there is one section of the tech that the gauge drops in. Up on investigating the pipe a little further, I notice that it was hit at one time and the threads are somewhat damaged. Using a little common sense, there is no way this was altered intentionally not does it aid in performance. I will take the time to explain to the competitor what the problem is and then tell him "not to bring it back" If a tech man doesn't use a little common sense when teching, he shouldn't be teching. JMO
 
thanks don...goes a long way when it's explained why you have to change something, but in the past, i've seen the wink-wink, nudge-nudge type teching going on....when racing the ministock that is, and it cost us points, position and worse...a friend. so far, i haven't been around karts being teched enough to say that it does or doesn't happen. hoepfully, it is a thing of the past and we can look forward to techs doing what's right, regardless of the outcome.....
 
Don I'd hate to see someone get a tech DQ for an on track incident. But you know not all tech men created equal. That's all I'm saying. If you own and rent/lease the engines there shouldn't be a tech issue other than oil and fuel additives.
 
I keep hearing abt 'owning/leasing' engines and I, myself have offerd to sponsor such a program for starting a Jr-1 Clone class here out west. Long story short...thank GOD 'they' didn't accept my offer! Set down/set back and just 'think' about 'everything' that can (and will) go wrong!!
 
It almost seems to me that some of you are trying to throw everything into a pot, mix it up pretty good, and make your rules based on what comes out.
Let's break it down somewhat.
We have 2 (stock based) national engine classes, well, 3 counting the flathead. We have the blueprinted Animal, and we have the blueprinted clone.

Then we have the Local Option 206, and we have the Local Option 196 (so to speak). These classes should be for beginners at local tracks to get seat time. The LO206 with it's seal and the 196 with a wienie pipe.
Now, on the LO196, think about it, what are you going to do about the flywheel? So right off the bat, the $125 engine is out and there goes your lowball claimer rule. For the most part, beginners are only going to be in that class for a short time before wanting to race with the "cool guys", and many of them will opt to start out in the blueprinted class anyway.
On the LO206, a sealed engine has never been generally popular in dirt oval karting, so that's a problem. Plus, the LO206 has been around nearly as long as the clone has, and has yet to gain any serious traction in the market.

Now, the obvious answer is for Briggs to use it's industrial clout and import a clone that will remain constant, however that doesn't seem fair to those who have been working to stabilize the clone market and are currently importing an engine that Briggs has been actively campaigning against.

Remember that the clone has already demonstrated resilience by being able to withstand a mandatory aftermarket flywheel rule. That's something to think about before predicting doom and gloom.
 
like the buying and leaving, i don't think a rent-to-race idea is very sound either. i see in my mind a scene from a jeff foxworthy comedy special...he was talking about rental cars...laughed and said something to the effect that "that pinto is gonna get more air time than michael jordan!" meaning it ain't mine so why should i take care of it? you run the risk each time one is rented that the renter is going to abuse the crap out of it (which they will....we're racers!!)

again, we are our own worst enemies...the answer to the question about the affordable racing league is broken down to this.....

1. research and develop a single set of rules based on the engine that you want...regardless of "use this one or that one"...
2. write them in stone, lava, skin off an aligators back...whatever you have handy and don't change them for anything....at least not during the racing season and preferably for at least two racing seasons.
3. get with someone who knows teching and develop a tech procedure that covers all the bases....don't leave any gray area's and don't give anyone any reason to tweak them to thier own advantage without concequences....
4. get all the drivers to enter into agreements to race the league and to abide by the rules. include in this agreement is a disclaimer that the rules will be followed and that anything that is not specifically in the rules is NOT legal. this clears up the "it ain't so I can"...
5. make sure that all the ends are closed and that the rules package doesn't give way to cheating (won't stop it, but it can be lessened a lot)
6. get with a sign maker and get a decal showing the kart is registered for the affordable racing league and give the drivers a chance to show case themselves....build the league up to entice other drivers/teams to join.
7. work with other tracks to let your league race at a different track for points toward the season championship. little things like this will help build the league and build trust between tracks...
8. have a board of directors (even if they are racers) to govern and direct the league. only decisions rendered by the board will be followed....this keeps others (and i've seen this happen) from making up things as they go along.
9. give it 100 percent and you can make it work. give it less or let others change things without thought to what it's all about and you might as well stop right now....

just my thinking....right or wrong, pick a direction and lets go racin!!!
 
Is there any way to fix the price of the engine. Say, make a clone ready to bolt on(how ever it may get defined) new cost $250. Everyone would know that's the price. And every dealer or builder would know if they under cut the price, they would end up cutting their nose off to spite their face. Sort of an un written rule. I guess track owners would have to also be involved, to the point if a seller was identified as under cutting the price there engines would not be permitted at the track.


edit: dumb post but I'm leaving it here
 
I don't think that would work. The engine alone is 100.00 or so now. Start adding in the misc. and you will be above that 250 pretty quick. Flywheel 90 bucks, exhaust ( if ya go with the seeks ) 100. bucks, then ya got all the other stuff. Plus there needs to be some meat on the table to pay the bills if you are in business.
 
...think'n more and more abt the name...'Affordable Racing League'! I understand the 'Intent and Desire'....But, it can only be at Disneyland. It's kinda like 'Affordable Insurance'....for whom? No...really, i'm trying too stay 'positive' here...but, it hurts thinking about it. I did get a 'chuckle' out of Bob E's use of the word 'national' however. :)

added: 'dumb post but I'm leaving here.....echo echo echo etc
 
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Well, to me a national motor is a blueprinted one that will be competitive at a national event like Batesville, Thanksgiving Thunder, etc.
Sometimes you need a national motor to be competitive on a local level, depending on where you live.
Don't know why you would get a chuckle out of it though.

Also, all these rules, they're pretty much already written down. Sometimes I wonder just how many different sets of rules it'll take to be enough.
 
Bob Evans said:
Well, to me a national motor is a blueprinted one that will be competitive at a national event like Batesville, Thanksgiving Thunder, etc.
Sometimes you need a national motor to be competitive on a local level, depending on where you live.
Don't know why you would get a chuckle out of it though.

Also, all these rules, they're pretty much already written down. Sometimes I wonder just how many different sets of rules it'll take to be enough.
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"Understood!" Thx 4-the clarification....
 
Ya Affordable Racing League, That $220 Clone keeps sounding better all the time, you got the rules just enforce them and do tech like the gentlemen above posted.
 
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