Attention Bill/AKRA and Dyno Don/Tech Inspector/BSP Fuel tests.

Many know that the ethanol gas kills the rubber in the BSP carbs. We try to run ethanol free gas but being checked prior to a race have failed many times and have to run the ethanol gas. These engines are around 7.5 to 1 comp. In my experience even running VP 116 race gas showed no difference in lap times at a asphalt track we run very consistant times at. My question is, is there any compromise with specific gravity readings for 2014 AKRA/WKA rules we can achieve to allow us to run ethanol free gas, so its less maintainence and problems? Some states may not have an abundance of this fuel but with parts store additives that are available for lawn equipment and marine engines to stabilize and neutralize the ethanol. It would sure be a lot easier on us racers. Im thinking maybe test a few of previous stated and come up with specific gravity rating that will accomodate the use of ethanol free fuel or stabilizers added to fuel without giving a fuel performance advantage. Just a suggestion.
 

RadialFin

New member
Interesting on your fuel finding..... I tested 91 ethanol free against 87 and my time dropped .7s/lap over a 59 second lap on an asphalt sprint track with the 87. I can drive laps within a tenth, sometimes a hundreth, for sure the difference was power. Didn't try anything higher than 91 though. Made no other changes or adjustments, ran the 91 to the bottom of the tank, filled up with 87 and drove right backout..
How about a control or spec "racing" fuel thats low octane and using a digatron to tech it? VP make a few 87MON racing fuels. Yeah costs more more per gallon, but the clones use so little gas I don't think it matters.
Do any of the non ethanol fuels meet the SG numbers?
 
We test on a small asphalt oval 1/9th mile 8.80 sec lap times, full throttle all the way around that vary only a few hundreths of a second at worst. We actually ran a few hundreths slower on the VP116 fuel. But that was a direct comparision, without any timing or jetting changes, which could effect times as well. That is with a purple plated engine.
 

RadialFin

New member
That's right, you should be slower on the VP116 fuel, you're losing a load of energy out the exhaust... Same here on changes though, none made on timing or jetting, just filled up with 87 and went a little quicker even though it contained 10% ethanol.
 

W5R

New member
There is a local small engine shop near me that sells some type of fuel that is supposed to be pure fuel with no additives, no ethanol or anything like that in it at all. I forget the name of the stuff but it comes in metal quart sized cans and the can is grey colored, i believe it was called TRU FUEL or something like that. It doesnt add power but it burns cleaner and cleans out your engine and carb and is 100% legal, i have only used it one time due to the high cost of the stuff, which was $8 per quart at the local shop near me, but if someone were to be able to buy it in bulk at a discounted price, it would be well worth using because it is very good stuff.
 

DynoDon

Member
Keep this in mind when being checked for fuel. Unless the track has a rule that the 87 octane fuel with ethanol must be used, there is no reason that you can't run non ethanol 87. I do not recall any AKRA ruling that say's you may not use non ethanol 87. If I am wrong someone please help me out here. Now where the problem lies is that the fuel to be compared to when using the digitron probably has ethanol in it and when you get yours tested it doesn't so it gives the digitron a false reading thus making your fuel illegal even though it isn't.
 
.....Now where the problem lies is that the fuel to be compared to when using the digitron probably has ethanol in it and when you get yours tested it doesn't so it gives the digitron a false reading thus making your fuel illegal even though it isn't.
That is a problem. A gas atation I pass on the way to work everyday has 87 octane w/ethanol & 87 octane without ethanol right next to each other on the pump...so for me, one is as easy to get as the other. The non-ethanol fuel is about 6-8¢ per gallon higher.
 
Keep this in mind when being checked for fuel. Unless the track has a rule that the 87 octane fuel with ethanol must be used, there is no reason that you can't run non ethanol 87. I do not recall any AKRA ruling that say's you may not use non ethanol 87. If I am wrong someone please help me out here. Now where the problem lies is that the fuel to be compared to when using the digitron probably has ethanol in it and when you get yours tested it doesn't so it gives the digitron a false reading thus making your fuel illegal even though it isn't.
Thats just it Don, we were tested with our "non-ethanol" gas and it showed 160 on the specific gravity( I believe), the ethanol comparasions averaged around 112-116 So I was thinking could a AKRA rule be implemented to allow up to say 160 or 180 allowed specific gravity without a performance addvantage? It would sure help a lot at race tracks, and help keep our engines/carbs much cleaner in the long run.
 

S&MRacing

New member
Everyone's fuel changes from area to area and the digitron testers need to be calibrated on a local level. I can get thrown out for using fuel from another area just about even its ethanol free vs ethanol free. Most tracks over here ethanol free is going to get you thrown out for the simple reason its harder to get.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
I believe what you say to be true Don...however, you still have to be within the allowable range on the Digatron to pass tech. Keep in mind that just because the fuel you buy at the local station says 87 on the pump, it is not always 87 octane gas that is pumped out. A competitor could easily state that he is running 87 octane, even unknown to him, while he is actually running 89 octane.

Spec gas might curb the problem of folks cheating up their fuel, but overall, it just makes the cost of racing go up for everyone and the guys that are cheating up their fuel now will still be doing the same with a different base fuel.
The OP doesn't like ethanol blended fuels for obvious reasons. Another competitor might like to run E85 or even straight alcohol. The rules makers will never make everyone happy. (That's not their job.) I think the availability of fuel should be a prime concern. If a spec gas is instituted, then you'd have to require every track, parts supplier, and local kart shop to stock and sell it. Imagine what it would cost to have even one barrel shipped? How about the racer that has to order his fuel online and the package doesn't get there by the weekend? Now he can't race? There are certain parts of the country where mandating a certain "spec gas" that must be shipped in would be VERY expensive. The current method of announcing the fuel to be used as available at the local station is quite adequate and necessary I think. I'm sure that BillMcFast and many others have tested fuels several times over. I'm sure this is an ongoing concern for them and I'd like to think that they make decisions based on what is best for the entire karting community. With all the racers in the "creative development department" experimenting with fuel additives right now, opening up the variance on the Digatron is probably the last thing they'd consider.

Thanks,
Brian Carlson
 

RadialFin

New member
Checkout www.pure-gas.org perhaps there is a a place near the track that you could use "pure" fuel from here and take a digatron reading? A marina is another possibility. Yeah a spec fuel will increase costs, but honestly it's buttons for the amount of fuel used. Perhaps the club or track can purchase one or two drums of VP 87MON fuel and sell to the drivers. The practicality and populatirty of that idea will vary of course, depending on the track or club.

The drivers that may ask for E85 and/or methanol do not represent the concerns of most drivers in my opinion. However I believe what judesdad is talking about here represents the consensus.
 

davea7

Member
The local track here requires us to buy gas from a gas station a mile up the road. That's fine but they do not sell ethanol free gas.
 

captnimo

Premium User
Using only the DC1 reading on the Digatron fuel tester is not a wise thing to do, as we have found out that many teams or individuals are mixing fuels or adding additives to MAKE it fall within the range on DC1 that tracks are allowing. The Digatron instruments are designed to give a specific reading on various fuels when the instruments are calibrated with either cyclohexene, 100 octane aviation fuel or xylene (-75,-93,-5). All gasoline's will have a different reading on DC1 but on DC2 all should test 0 +/- 1.
You can specify based upon purchases from a single gas station a range that DC1 must fall within and be fairly accurate unless you have those who are mixing fuels to get within your level, the DC2 test will detect those who are doing this.
87 octane with up to 10 ethanol will test a lot less negative than 97 regular without ethanol, 89 and higher octane fuels contain less ethanol than 97 octane with ethanol and will test more negative than 87 octane(with 10% ethanol).
All grades of gasoline should still test 0 +/- 1 on DC2 unless other than normal additives are added to it. Having worked in a calibration lab for years both calibrating instruments and strandards we decided years ago that on digital readouts you had to give an additional +/- 1 count to any tolerance that you allow so in this case I would say any reading other than 0 +/- 2 on DC2 tests would be questionable .
Even through temp of fuel being tested should be measured in most cases it makes only a slight difference on both the DC1 and DC2 tests but should be considered before making a DQ.

Here is one thing that I have noticed on making fuel tests:
If most karters at an event fall with say a reading of -28 to -35 on DC1 and on DC2 0,+/- 1 and some have a reading of -20 or less on DC1 and they show -3 on DC2 ,during tech the carbs most likely will have a jet size bigger than the others, say 42 vs everyone else 38/39.

The new Digatron 60 Series Fuel tester has a 4 window viewing area all at once, it shows DC1,DC2 fuel temp and a self check window. The instrument probe is a lot more sensitive than previous models. If I had both models then what I would do is calibrated the New DT60 with one of the three known substances that we have listed on both DC1 and DC2, then calibrate the DC47 or other fuel tester to read exactly on DC1 what the DT 60 reads on a known fuel. Then I would use the Dt47 to make most checks on competitors fuels and if any are close to be questionable make a final test with the DT60, especially on DC2.

Many techs/tracks have been calibrating their fuel testers by just buying a fuel from a station and giving so many points from that reading or adjusting the DC1 to zero and giving so many points, this actually is not a good procedure with what is going on now with karters mixing fuels and buying their own fuel testers. The DC 2 tests need to be done to even the playing field and calibration of your meter against one of the three fluids that we recommend. You can still give a range on DC1 which will compensate for the stations not having pure 87 octane because the fuel supplier was short on 87 and filled the order with some 89 or higher octane.
 
Keep in mind also, when buying gas from a pump with multiple blends. ......the last guy to use the pump may not have used the same thing you are buying.

I always pump two gallons into my GAS POWERED tow vehicle (if you drive a diesle, take a jug for generator or mower gas) first to clear the meter and hose of whatever blend was in before I arrived. Then I fill my race jugs....and finally top off my tow vehicle.

Here is our local tracks fuel rule:

Fuel Requirements: All clone class competitors are required to use 87 octane gasoline from pump #3 at the Shell station located on Clearlake Avenue. Fuel will be tested using the Digatron meter zeroed on a fresh sample obtained by the tech inspector the day of the event. A tolerance of +/- 5 points will be used. It may be adjusted to a tolerance of +/- 3 with a seven day notice on the Clubs website.
 

DynoDon

Member
Using only the DC1 reading on the Digatron fuel tester is not a wise thing to do, as we have found out that many teams or individuals are mixing fuels or adding additives to MAKE it fall within the range on DC1 that tracks are allowing. The Digatron instruments are designed to give a specific reading on various fuels when the instruments are calibrated with either cyclohexene, 100 octane aviation fuel or xylene (-75,-93,-5). All gasoline's will have a different reading on DC1 but on DC2 all should test 0 +/- 1.
You can specify based upon purchases from a single gas station a range that DC1 must fall within and be fairly accurate unless you have those who are mixing fuels to get within your level, the DC2 test will detect those who are doing this.
87 octane with up to 10 ethanol will test a lot less negative than 97 regular without ethanol, 89 and higher octane fuels contain less ethanol than 97 octane with ethanol and will test more negative than 87 octane(with 10% ethanol).
All grades of gasoline should still test 0 +/- 1 on DC2 unless other than normal additives are added to it. Having worked in a calibration lab for years both calibrating instruments and strandards we decided years ago that on digital readouts you had to give an additional +/- 1 count to any tolerance that you allow so in this case I would say any reading other than 0 +/- 2 on DC2 tests would be questionable .
Even through temp of fuel being tested should be measured in most cases it makes only a slight difference on both the DC1 and DC2 tests but should be considered before making a DQ.

Here is one thing that I have noticed on making fuel tests:
If most karters at an event fall with say a reading of -28 to -35 on DC1 and on DC2 0,+/- 1 and some have a reading of -20 or less on DC1 and they show -3 on DC2 ,during tech the carbs most likely will have a jet size bigger than the others, say 42 vs everyone else 38/39.

The new Digatron 60 Series Fuel tester has a 4 window viewing area all at once, it shows DC1,DC2 fuel temp and a self check window. The instrument probe is a lot more sensitive than previous models. If I had both models then what I would do is calibrated the New DT60 with one of the three known substances that we have listed on both DC1 and DC2, then calibrate the DC47 or other fuel tester to read exactly on DC1 what the DT 60 reads on a known fuel. Then I would use the Dt47 to make most checks on competitors fuels and if any are close to be questionable make a final test with the DT60, especially on DC2.

Many techs/tracks have been calibrating their fuel testers by just buying a fuel from a station and giving so many points from that reading or adjusting the DC1 to zero and giving so many points, this actually is not a good procedure with what is going on now with karters mixing fuels and buying their own fuel testers. The DC 2 tests need to be done to even the playing field and calibration of your meter against one of the three fluids that we recommend. You can still give a range on DC1 which will compensate for the stations not having pure 87 octane because the fuel supplier was short on 87 and filled the order with some 89 or higher octane.
Now that is an eye opener!!!
 

RadialFin

New member
Before we get carried away though..... do any of these special homebrew gas blends actually make more power in a BSP clone?
 

captnimo

Premium User
That is very debatable, I would say just adding a power mist or other fuel additives without adjusting timing and changing jet sizes its not much of an advantage.
In the tech mention by Mr Curry's post they are not leaving much room for cheating and making mixing of fuels vary unlikely. That is a tight control when allowing only +/- 5 counts on DC1. It means most likely fuel to be purchased that day by karters, a super clean tank with very little left over from previous race and most likely that alky was never ran in that tank. One thing is the DC2 test would most likely never read anywhere around 0 because of calibrating the meter to 0 on DC1 the meter calibration on the older fuel tester have no DC2 calibration as its set off calibrating the meter on DC1 with a known test chemical.
 

Dover Power

Member
Before we get carried away though..... do any of these special homebrew gas blends actually make more power in a BSP clone?
Yes... Homebrew naah... Lab created and expensive yes.. Theirs ONLY 3 ways to beat the good stuff... Pump Around,,, Chemical Test Strips,, but the best one is to dump this gas and go to Methanol..

Properly mixed you can expect 1/2 to 1 full hp.
Yes its very very dangerious to inhale especialy our young kids.. Attacks the nervious systems and brain..
 

captnimo

Premium User
I agree that if fuel is mixed and done right tremendous hp can be gained, I disagree that that pump arounds and methanol is the solution, these have been beaten regularly, chem strips or the proper use of a Fuel tester is the best way currently. There are very few tracks that are using the fuel tester properly and to its full extent. Those tech persons using the new Digatron Fuel tester could possibly tell you in their area just where you are purchasing your gas fuel for a race because they have tested that many different stations in their sampling. Its the combination of DC1 and the DC2 tests that really check a fuel.
 

XXX#40

Member
Yes... Homebrew naah... Lab created and expensive yes.. Theirs ONLY 3 ways to beat the good stuff... Pump Around,,, Chemical Test Strips,, but the best one is to dump this gas and go to Methanol..

Properly mixed you can expect 1/2 to 1 full hp.
Yes its very very dangerious to inhale especialy our young kids.. Attacks the nervious systems and brain..
Jerry if those guys using that stuff doesnt care about the health of others around them, the type of fuel will not change there cheating ways.
 
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