ATTENTION EVERYONE Racing Karts in Central Pa 7 stars, Pennscreek, Selinsgrove, Hunterstown, Shellhammers, BMS Series, Keystone Series, MUST READ

racing promotor

Moderator
EVERYONE SHOULD ATTEND or If you cannot, express yourself by being heard here , There will be a meeting with everyone involved, Track Owners, Series Directors, Promoters, Sponsors, Racers, Die hard spectators, under one roof that can make changes for the better to every event coming up for 2023 with a few strokes of a pen.
MISSION STATEMENT for the meeting. Come together with love, more unified , to enhance the enjoyment of a family sporting event, which happens to be the GREATEST FAMILY Sporting event !!
There will be more than enough Experience, Wisdom to end up with a master plan for every karting event for 2023 regardless which event it is.
I like the simple philosophy " The Guy that does the paying does the saying " So if EVERYONE CHECKS THERE EGOS AT THE DOOR
The racers and sponsors SPEAK, and the powers to be LISTEN we can make a HUGE difference. Regardless which track, which series, which event, there are issues that need change, and some of them are so simple it's silly to even have to point out.
Some might call it a come to Jesus meeting, so where better place to have it than the church building in town my wife owns , 304 Cameron St, Marysville Pa 17053
right across from post office, parking might get tight lot behind the post office, lot behind the church building, up the street at the fire company maybe, and the family practice lot, I'll confirm permission, we'll figure it out where there's a will there's a way.

Some topics on the card, 1) Adding a program to better support our youth, and new racers 2) enforcement of rules 3) tweaking some rules so were unified, add a few rules, like No swerving your kart once the 1 to go rolled flag has been given.
4) classes and weights 5) Dates 6) Practice events with learning seminars 7) Time Management 8) Recognize when to slow down, and when not to speed up time between classes. I'll leave others add to

Some issues to solve 1) make the most out of the time it takes early till the track is ready to start qualifying, without everyone involved having to go do slow slop laps 2) Introduce 1 rule that EVERYONE adapts and enforces karts to the grid in a timely fashion to time trial, and race, and even practice for that matter. 3) enforce rules equally 4) tech and pre tech
5 ) Rushing Karts to the grid when the program is no where near ready 6) not taking time to seal the top so you don't end up with a one groove high speed parade 6) Cut laps near the end of the event after we wasted plenty of time to have been done . I'll leave other add to

Session to figure out what racers want and what they don't want.

We need EVERYONE to show up and let your voice be heard , However it's being held at a church to set the tone, which will be low keyed, respectfully with no profanity, No Alcohol .
Show up with a list of notes, Things you like about a certain track or series is doing , things you dislike there doing, Nothing worse for me than showing up to an unorganized event, start late without any weather intervention , then rush like crazy on my time, to wait on there's, and end up racing on a one groove surface.
All Track Owners will speak, all Series Directors will speak, all sponsors will get time to speak plugging there products and services available, all racers can ask questions to enhance there karting programs.

Feel free to continue guy's, just be nice Lol !!

AGAIN 304 Cameron St, Marysville Pa 17053 Church across St from post office, Sunday Jan 22 nd at 2 Pm Sharp.

God Bless
 
Something most all Tracks and Series need to stay in tune and during Practice they cannot push, push, push guy's running 3 or 4 classes , and guy's running themselves plus running there kids cannot keep the pace, need a few minutes here and there .

Some Ideas to better utilize the time between Track roll in and track being ready to start Qualifying , this would be for the series races.
add an entry level class like out of the box stock predator, for adults and Juniors FREE or Low cost entry fee, of course they need pit passes, then during that time slot practice them, run there heat races and features before qualifying ever starts for the normal classes.
Then guys from those classes can stay and help the bigger teams get to the grid, make a connection and learn from those bigger teams .

Also run classes like say Rookie 1 in that time slot that only has 3 entries and there all new, or newer racers not ready to go fast yet, That way your not mixing Rookie 1 novice kids with Rookie 2 Pro drivers, Only mix them if there of equal talent skill set.

A youth program with a Big Brother / Big Sister concept where kids can sign up for support from the bigger teams, those teams take them under there wing provide financial support and mentor the youth . might be surprised how many more would show up knowing they had some support.

Local Tracks have a practice night for only Novice adults, and the youth where experienced guys show up mentor them, and have tire guys show up, and set up guys show up and do learning seminars.

Everyone get on the same page and adapt a rule for getting all karts to the grid for practice, qualifying, racing that the event doesn't, end up losing 45 min waiting on people, everyone uses the same rule and ENFORCES IT THE SAME .
 
I don't have much experience to have many solutions, but it sounds like you are looking for ideas for more involvement. Personally some test and tune days would be great. With only one kart I don't get enough laps to try different setups and compare. Even if once a month the track opened early.

I like your thoughts on getting experienced teams to help newbies, but I have found it is not hard to get advice, just everyone does it different. So if I am tight till I get back to my pits I have 3 different opinions on how to fix that. I do not think any of them are to throw me off, they all work for that teams setup. But I still do not know what to do for me. And if I do all of them I am way off.

If setup and driving seminars were available I would be there. I have heard of the quarter midgets having karts available on certain days you can stop in and have your kid try it.

The one thing that I find does make me a little more comfortable is a meeting. A chance to see who is in charge and know where to go if I have questions. Maybe this is not a mandatory meeting at weekly tracks by, but If someone new is at the track a chance to explain the track flow.

Finally shorter days /nights and less commitment often help. Every Saturday most of the day to be competitive is more than most families can give. Maybe have a class that is a bi weekly points class. The points only count 2 times a month, or half season.

I will pencil your meeting in and come if I can, I would like to meet more participants and be more involved if I could.
 
I agree with surveyor, have point races every other week so families can take vacations together. Then run money races on the off weeks to bring in competitors to make up for those not attending. This will also give others chances to run at other tracks or the possibility of running another class like pa wings.
 
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I don't have much experience to have many solutions, but it sounds like you are looking for ideas for more involvement. Personally some test and tune days would be great. With only one kart I don't get enough laps to try different setups and compare. Even if once a month the track opened early.

I like your thoughts on getting experienced teams to help newbies, but I have found it is not hard to get advice, just everyone does it different. So if I am tight till I get back to my pits I have 3 different opinions on how to fix that. I do not think any of them are to throw me off, they all work for that teams setup. But I still do not know what to do for me. And if I do all of them I am way off.

If setup and driving seminars were available I would be there. I have heard of the quarter midgets having karts available on certain days you can stop in and have your kid try it.

The one thing that I find does make me a little more comfortable is a meeting. A chance to see who is in charge and know where to go if I have questions. Maybe this is not a mandatory meeting at weekly tracks by, but If someone new is at the track a chance to explain the track flow.

Finally shorter days /nights and less commitment often help. Every Saturday most of the day to be competitive is more than most families can give. Maybe have a class that is a bi weekly points class. The points only count 2 times a month, or half season.

I will pencil your meeting in and come if I can, I would like to meet more participants and be more involved if I could.
This is the kind of dialog needed , don't worry about needing more experience to feel comfortable to speak up, I hope that more racers in your position show up than the say pro racers do. Because guess what If we can't capture you and keep you in the sport soon there will be very few experienced racers left.
 
I agree with surveyor, have point races every other week so families can take vacations together. Then run money races on the off weeks to bring in competitors to make up for those not attending. This will also give others chances to run at other tracks or the possibility of running another class like pa wings.
Or a 2 person team race for that same points championship, that way it is ever other week. and offer a few classes that only have to race every other week for points, the off week is open for test and tune.
 
Another topic worth talking about would be is it time for there to only be 1 engine platform, which around here would have to be clone.
this would be for the Series races.
And While your doing that cut classes 20 to 26 is waaaaaaaaay to many, before you say BUT you need those xtra entries consider there are other ways to capture those entries that don't hinder the bottom line, just need time managed better so the pro class racers that don't offer product or services aren't there an xtra 6 hrs for that to happen.
 
Another topic worth talking about would be is it time for there to only be 1 engine platform, which would have to be clone.
Especially for the Series races.
And While your doing that cut classes 20 to 26 to waaaaaaaaay to many, before you say BUT you need those entries consider there other ways to capture those entries that don't hinder the bottom line, just need separated some so the pro classes aren't there an xtra 6 hrs for that to happen.
Biggest reason I ask now is the shortage of parts problem with the Flathead and Animal , then add in the added cost difference to rebuilt.
 
Biggest reason I ask now is the shortage of parts problem with the Flathead and Animal , then add in the added cost difference to rebuilt.
What shortage? I bought a TON of new (and used) flathead and animal parts at the Carlisle flea market. If guys want to rebuild these engines, there should be no parts problems -- building complete new engines, however may be an issue. I can still build new flatheads and animals, but I realize that I'm the exception to the norm. I hate to see guys squeezed out of running their current flatheads and animals because of a "trend" in karting. In many parts of the country, the clones are getting more rare all the time, and Predators are gaining popularity -- will you then force everyone to jump to the Predator platform?
Overall, I love what you are doing, Ken -- it would be awesome to see all the local tracks come together on their classes, rules, and enforcement. It's not an impossible task, although improbable. Track owners/promoters still have control of these items and it's their track to dictate what they wish. If the racers don't like it, they will support another area track that better suits their needs. Essentially, they'll vote with their dollars - which is the way it's already done. We definitely need some open track days for practice before getting into points season. That would GREATLY help new folks to our sport.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
34 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
What shortage? I bought a TON of new (and used) flathead and animal parts at the Carlisle flea market. If guys want to rebuild these engines, there should be no parts problems -- building complete new engines, however may be an issue. I can still build new flatheads and animals, but I realize that I'm the exception to the norm. I hate to see guys squeezed out of running their current flatheads and animals because of a "trend" in karting. In many parts of the country, the clones are getting more rare all the time, and Predators are gaining popularity -- will you then force everyone to jump to the Predator platform?
Overall, I love what you are doing, Ken -- it would be awesome to see all the local tracks come together on their classes, rules, and enforcement. It's not an impossible task, although improbable. Track owners/promoters still have control of these items and it's their track to dictate what they wish. If the racers don't like it, they will support another area track that better suits their needs. Essentially, they'll vote with their dollars - which is the way it's already done. We definitely need some open track days for practice before getting into points season. That would GREATLY help new folks to our sport.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
34 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Since you opened the door First let me take the opportunity to testify. I'm not doing or trying to do anything anymore, other than following my Heart, and I know I don't have to sell you on Whom has the most impact on ones Heart " AMEN " , It's always been there however In the past I've always approached it my way which never ended up with the best results , because of my great passion for the sport, going to try this the best way this time with my ears more open than my mouth, and when it's time to open my mouth first words will be " Praise ".

My post the one before this one you responded to was more of a question than a statement, the hard to get parts came from not that long ago that fact was posted on here plus was buzz at the track, maybe things have changed some, or as you point out maybe your not the norm.
Not trying to force anyone to the table in fact most everyone attending feel it's time and requested this , not trying to push this concept everywhere, only this small area say 100 mile radius, and this topic would be only for the series events, not the local track Fri and Sat night regular points programs.
 
I watched the red plate class at seven stars this year have between 8 and 12 racers ...a few had never raced before and as one would expect the new drivers were off the pace so jacob would give these new drivers the intermission time to make laps while line ups and other things were being done this is a great thing to do and as a track don't wait for them to ask approach them and offer it to them and I would also like to say that there were very few problems with the difference in speed and it was huge for the ones who needed seat time so if our youngest group of kids was able to navigate through the slower karts then series racing can and should combine lower kart count classes racing 3 karts in a class doesn't do much to help gain racing experience
 
Another topic worth talking about would be is it time for there to only be 1 engine platform, which around here would have to be clone.
this would be for the Series races.
And While your doing that cut classes 20 to 26 is waaaaaaaaay to many, before you say BUT you need those xtra entries consider there are other ways to capture those entries that don't hinder the bottom line, just need time managed better so the pro class racers that don't offer product or services aren't there an xtra 6 hrs for that to happen.
Ken
We have and run clones but I’m still a big fan of the flathead. Maybe it’s because it’s what we started karting on We run them locally and at BMS. My engine builder says parts are becoming scarce and quite a few big name builders no longer work on them. That being said 7 Stars Pap Dimm Memorial and the Lincoln Memorial race each had around 20 entries for 375 so there’s still interest in the platform. Everyone will have their own idea as to what’s going to save karting I just hope all of us can work together to advance the sport as entries in my own experience are about half of what they were when we started
 
Staying on schedule is important to me. 5 min breaks quickly turn into an hour, maybe try to accommodate the small 1-2 man teams instead of the super teams, or pushing people towards the super teams no offense to them. I just always have the feeling if I’m late to grid I won’t be aloud out, whereas other people get plenty of time, one of the convenient super long brakes, or 20 pace laps… idk how to overall make it better, but if I was getting in, I’d take an open checkbook to one of the super teams and let them worry about it and make it fast, I certainly don’t have the resources…

I also agree the flathead still thrives around here, i still love them it’s what I know. Have a brand new animal sitting here, wish the clones could get a rules package figured out…
 
Since you opened the door First let me take the opportunity to testify. I'm not doing or trying to do anything anymore, other than following my Heart, and I know I don't have to sell you on Whom has the most impact on ones Heart " AMEN " , It's always been there however In the past I've always approached it my way which never ended up with the best results , because of my great passion for the sport, going to try this the best way this time with my ears more open than my mouth, and when it's time to open my mouth first words will be " Praise ".

My post the one before this one you responded to was more of a question than a statement, the hard to get parts came from not that long ago that fact was posted on here plus was buzz at the track, maybe things have changed some, or as you point out maybe your not the norm.
Not trying to force anyone to the table in fact most everyone attending feel it's time and requested this , not trying to push this concept everywhere, only this small area say 100 mile radius, and this topic would be only for the series events, not the local track Fri and Sat night regular points programs.
Ken, certainly don't take my comment as criticism, but simply as input. I'm certainly not doubting your passion for the sport - I don't think anyone honestly could.
Of course there are several big name builders who refuse to work on flatheads anymore. Considering the amount of time that goes into building a new one (or even freshening a used one) and the ROI, it's a no-brainer why they choose to work on only the ohv stuff today. Yes, some Briggs parts are NLA from the factory. I liken it to Chevy small blocks for local stock cars, modifieds, 358s, 360s sprints, etc. As new factory blocks dried up, everyone sourced their local salvage yards. Eventually those dried up, and Dart, WP, etc stepped up and had aftermarket blocks made. The same has happened with Briggs flatheads.
I guess my question is, if we gravitate toward one engine platform, which should it be? You are saying BP'd clone, but in many parts of the country, the clone is already on its way out. What then? The Predator doesn't seem to be on real stable ground as far as manufacturing changes go (big surprise.)

You and I both remember when we had C and D mains for adult classes at the local tracks:
Adult classes were 295# Light and 350# Heavy. No medium, no super heavy, no sumo, no over 35 or masters, no pro or amateur.
1 engine, 2 classes = pick one.
For juniors, we had purple plate and gold plate - that's it. No money class, no warm-up class, no beginner, rookie, putt-putt, etc.
1 engine, 2 jr classes = pick one.
Then, we had an open class, which was primarily 2 cycles, but could be whatever, to throw all the rest in.
Life was simple - racing was hard & and we all got along. :)

Personally, I think a stand-alone series or track could do very well with a limited number of classes like this today (whichever engine platform they choose.) The #1 gripe I hear from racers is too many classes creating the all day, all night, and into the next day, experience at the track.

Take a moment to consider the number of laps (with lap times) the racer gets for the amount of time he is actually at the track. It's pretty disheartening. A ~$50 entry fee + pit passes to get 40 laps @ 15 secs./lap amounts to 10 total minutes of actual track time. Considering the 12+ hours spent at the track - THIS is a big reason people (casual/hobby racers) are finding other things to do with their time.

Again, I applaud your efforts and don't discourage you one bit from trying to get everyone on the same page. Being a promoter yourself, you know what you're up against. It's certainly an uphill battle, but I wish you all the best.
 
Staying on schedule is important to me. 5 min breaks quickly turn into an hour, maybe try to accommodate the small 1-2 man teams instead of the super teams, or pushing people towards the super teams no offense to them. I just always have the feeling if I’m late to grid I won’t be aloud out, whereas other people get plenty of time, one of the convenient super long brakes, or 20 pace laps… idk how to overall make it better, but if I was getting in, I’d take an open checkbook to one of the super teams and let them worry about it and make it fast, I certainly don’t have the resources…

I also agree the flathead still thrives around here, i still love them it’s what I know. Have a brand new animal sitting here, wish the clones could get a rules package figured out…
The clone rules package has been figured out. 3 times a year, every year.
 
Ken, certainly don't take my comment as criticism, but simply as input. I'm certainly not doubting your passion for the sport - I don't think anyone honestly could.
Of course there are several big name builders who refuse to work on flatheads anymore. Considering the amount of time that goes into building a new one (or even freshening a used one) and the ROI, it's a no-brainer why they choose to work on only the ohv stuff today. Yes, some Briggs parts are NLA from the factory. I liken it to Chevy small blocks for local stock cars, modifieds, 358s, 360s sprints, etc. As new factory blocks dried up, everyone sourced their local salvage yards. Eventually those dried up, and Dart, WP, etc stepped up and had aftermarket blocks made. The same has happened with Briggs flatheads.
I guess my question is, if we gravitate toward one engine platform, which should it be? You are saying BP'd clone, but in many parts of the country, the clone is already on its way out. What then? The Predator doesn't seem to be on real stable ground as far as manufacturing changes go (big surprise.)

You and I both remember when we had C and D mains for adult classes at the local tracks:
Adult classes were 295# Light and 350# Heavy. No medium, no super heavy, no sumo, no over 35 or masters, no pro or amateur.
1 engine, 2 classes = pick one.
For juniors, we had purple plate and gold plate - that's it. No money class, no warm-up class, no beginner, rookie, putt-putt, etc.
1 engine, 2 jr classes = pick one.
Then, we had an open class, which was primarily 2 cycles, but could be whatever, to throw all the rest in.
Life was simple - racing was hard & and we all got along. :)

Personally, I think a stand-alone series or track could do very well with a limited number of classes like this today (whichever engine platform they choose.) The #1 gripe I hear from racers is too many classes creating the all day, all night, and into the next day, experience at the track.

Take a moment to consider the number of laps (with lap times) the racer gets for the amount of time he is actually at the track. It's pretty disheartening. A ~$50 entry fee + pit passes to get 40 laps @ 15 secs./lap amounts to 10 total minutes of actual track time. Considering the 12+ hours spent at the track - THIS is a big reason people (casual/hobby racers) are finding other things to do with their time.

Again, I applaud your efforts and don't discourage you one bit from trying to get everyone on the same page. Being a promoter yourself, you know what you're up against. It's certainly an uphill battle, but I wish you all the best.
Only responding to point out to others here's a good example of not being sure how what we type is received, I didn't take any part of your post I responded to as criticism, nor took offense to any of it, and if my reply back came off offensive I apologize as it was not my intent at all, we need as much input on this thread as possible to create an agenda for the meeting, my reply was simply to bring some clarity to what were trying to achieve. Had you not responded I was going to send you a PM hoping your schedule would allow for us to connect on the phone.
 
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