Black sand during week, but before or after conditioning?

[BMR Motorsports]

I have a new set of harder maxxis that have been rolled inside. I want to prep with black sand and have ready for dusty/gritty low bite track conditions. They are punching about 55. My plan was to condition with a low bite conditioner until about 48/50 on duro and then swipe with black sand and let cure for a week.

Should I be doing the black sand before the conditioner or a day or two after then let sit? What about mixing the prep in with the conditioner? I've used black sand track-side before but it was cut with acrysol a little. Should black sand prepped tires be wrapped while they sit?

Sort of a side question but,
I know black sand is great for dry and dusty but how is it still a viable choice for then the track is cold, low bite and sandy but the sand is clumping and sticking?

 

[ABR #69]

I've done it both ways. I've put bite in early and prep them down the week of the race to the duro I wanted. I've layered bite and duro drop over the course of a week or sometimes two. But, I wouldn't mix blacksand with whatever prep you're using to drop the Duro.

Randy has said he prefers to layer with blacksand and whatever he's using to drop duro. I generally like to get bite in early now and just drop the tires the week of. Since I feel like it's easier to get the duro at the target without over doing it. I also would not wrap almost any tire with modern prep.

Blacksand still works great on cooler tracks, but it's more about wether the tires actually fire off in cold weather as to wether it needs the blacksand, and how well it works. I'd most likely use blackbite at the track in cooler weather instead of blacksand personally.

 

[BMR Motorsports]

I've done it both ways. I've put bite in early and prep them down the week of the race to the duro I wanted. I've layered bite and duro drop over the course of a week or sometimes two. But, I wouldn't mix blacksand with whatever prep you're using to drop the Duro.

Randy has said he prefers to layer with blacksand and whatever he's using to drop duro. I generally like to get bite in early now and just drop the tires the week of. Since I feel like it's easier to get the duro at the target without over doing it. I also would not wrap almost any tire with modern prep.

Blacksand still works great on cooler tracks, but it's more about wether the tires actually fire off in cold weather as to wether it needs the blacksand, and how well it works. I'd most likely use blackbite at the track in cooler weather instead of blacksand personally.

Thank for the reply! Ill try layering bite in, letting it sit for a few days and then checking the durometer. Everything I read says the longer black sand can cure, the more effective the bite will be.

As for firing off, would these tires theoretically need a swipe of something to fire off at the track or are you meaning try and make sure of conditions working in that regard first? How well does black sand "fire itself off"?

I've never been one to torch anything into my tires, I've seldom even brought my hotbox along to the track but I saw people torching black sand and acrysol into their tires the other night and it seemed to be working well for them.

 

[ABR #69]

Unless it's hard, high bite and moderately warm blacksand will need more than it's self to fire even with acrysol.

Torching blacksand/Acrysol can be quite effective, but if you allow them to cool before going onto the track you'll still need a prep to fire them.

Anytime it's cool, cold or damp, I'd highly suggest SQS to fire, there are many chemicals that will also work as well. In the post above I meant that if the tires don't actually fire the blacksand would probably not matter. So the key in cold weather is getting the tire to start building heat, and maintain heat. Which is why softer tires, softer sidewalls, and chemicals are associated with cold weather racing. If you know they're where they need to be duro wise when you drop them, it could still be they need more inside to maintain.

Maxxis tend to like 90-120cc (or more) for cold weather, depends on the type of track and grip levels needed. Duro helps start the tires building heat by initially gripping, allowing the carcass to flex and further build heat activating the inside chemicals. If the duro is too soft the tires will get even softer once they heat and start to feather producing ill effects. Too hard and it makes it harder for the tire to initially grip and delays the carcass flexing enough to activate the inside chemicals. Meaning the tires take much longer to come in. Once the inside prep is activated it helps to maintain enough heat to keep the whole tire and tread at it's optimal temp for grip. Too little inside and they will cool off down the straights and won't grip as well. See why it's so easy to miss a little on one of these variables and the tires just aren't as fast? This is why less chemical and harder duro is needed for warmer weather and more for cold.

 

[JGR32]

Unless it's hard, high bite and moderately warm blacksand will need more than it's self to fire even with acrysol.

Torching blacksand/Acrysol can be quite effective, but if you allow them to cool before going onto the track you'll still need a prep to fire them.

Anytime it's cool, cold or damp, I'd highly suggest SQS to fire, there are many chemicals that will also work as well. In the post above I meant that if the tires don't actually fire the blacksand would probably not matter. So the key in cold weather is getting the tire to start building heat, and maintain heat. Which is why softer tires, softer sidewalls, and chemicals are associated with cold weather racing. If you know they're where they need to be duro wise when you drop them, it could still be they need more inside to maintain.

Maxxis tend to like 90-120cc (or more) for cold weather, depends on the type of track and grip levels needed. Duro helps start the tires building heat by initially gripping, allowing the carcass to flex and further build heat activating the inside chemicals. If the duro is too soft the tires will get even softer once they heat and start to feather producing ill effects. Too hard and it makes it harder for the tire to initially grip and delays the carcass flexing enough to activate the inside chemicals. Meaning the tires take much longer to come in. Once the inside prep is activated it helps to maintain enough heat to keep the whole tire and tread at it's optimal temp for grip. Too little inside and they will cool off down the straights and won't grip as well. See why it's so easy to miss a little on one of these variables and the tires just aren't as fast? This is why less chemical and harder duro is needed for warmer weather and more for cold.

That’s good stuff.

 

[hotelcalifornia]

I agree with him sqs is a great replacement for acrysol in the cold weather

 

[CH3Racing]

I have a new set of harder maxxis that have been rolled inside. I want to prep with black sand and have ready for dusty/gritty low bite track conditions. They are punching about 55. My plan was to condition with a low bite conditioner until about 48/50 on duro and then swipe with black sand and let cure for a week.

Should I be doing the black sand before the conditioner or a day or two after then let sit? What about mixing the prep in with the conditioner? I've used black sand track-side before but it was cut with acrysol a little. Should black sand prepped tires be wrapped while they sit?

Sort of a side question but,
I know black sand is great for dry and dusty but how is it still a viable choice for then the track is cold, low bite and sandy but the sand is clumping and sticking?

I would definitely do whatever softening you want then add the Black Sand. I would recommend getting the tires where you want on duro with GK1 Blue then adding the Black Sand on top. You do not want to wrap the tires just them them sit. As stated above mixing the Black Sand with SQS trackside is always a good option in the cooler months.

 

[Emc2]

Why won’t the SQS work by itself? What does mixing the black sand do to help?

 

[ABR #69]

Why won’t the SQS work by itself? What does mixing the black sand do to help?

The OP originally asked if it was still viable to use blacksand in colder weather even if it dry and dusty.

So I typically wouldn't replace acrysol with Sqs, though it certainly could. Especially in cold weather, unless I'm torching, I want to do everything to get the blacksand to drive into the tire. Then I'd wipe SQS on top, because SQS will help dry the tire.

If you wanted to wipe SQS as the only trackside wipe, you also could certainly do that as well. As long as the tires were prepped correctly during the week, as a one and only prerace, or a final topper over a prerace SQS can't be beat.