box stock for real

Josheezpapa is right on in his thinking. Claim rules don't work for one reason, no one wants to just hand over what is rightly their's, if I've put the time and money into procuring the engine, adding on all the necessary bolt-ons like top plate, throttle linkage, air-filter adapter, header, muffler etc. Why should I gladly just hand over said engine? that paltry 150 wouldn't cover the amount I put into one even if I did buy it directly off the shelf from harbor freight... and another thing chromejunkie, your track isn't even running to any particular set of rules, I wouldn't race at a track that didn't adhere to some major organizations rules like AKRA or WKA. However you're running a track out of your backyard it sounds like; so really in the grand scheme of things you don't have a dog in this race.

I'll say this my animals are done by a top caliber builder but the couple clones I do have are done by someone in my local area for less (not dirt cheap but not 800 dollars either); oh and these locally built clones have finished no worse than second in two money races I've run and they've been up against some top caliber builders. you want parity run your clones on EL's and you'll have parity (those damn bricks take actual power out of the equation for the most part, not entirely though). And I wouldn't let my clones go even on a 500 dollar claimer rule (current track I run had that claim rule about two years ago, it's since been dropped), I'd rather have them torn down in tech (it's cheaper to have it rebuild and put back together than to have a brand new clone built). Tech keeps everything fair, for the most part.

I'll add that I strive to win, to utterly dominate, that's the whole point in racing. A shiny good looking kart wont get me to the front all by its self. My equipment is well maintained and my body isn't all torn up but it isn't covered in "bling" it looked good in an under stated way that is until the last money race where it was obliterated.
 
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Ted Hamilton said:
Whatever happened to racing for the sheer fun and thrill of it? I don't race to humble others, I race to better myself. And I enjoy carving a perfect turn, twisting a perfect safety wire, achieving a shiny kart and body..... Anyone that thinks that crushing others is the main motivation in karting has a lot to learn about life and what makes it worth living.
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Excellent reply, but this isn't a "Rolly Coaster" site for enthusiast looking to get that elusive perfect ride. The perfect ride is a total waist if you don't win. Fun to talk about but still second rate. ... :)
 
apex96 said:
n and another thing chromejunkie, your track isn't even running to any particular set of rules, I wouldn't race at a track that didn't adhere to some major organizations rules like AKRA or WKA. However you're running a track out of your backyard it sounds like; so really in the grand scheme of things you don't have a dog in this race.

I'll say this my animals are done by a top caliber builder but the couple clones I do have are done by someone in my local area for less (not dirt cheap but not 800 dollars either); oh and these locally built clones have finished no worse than second in two money races I've run and they've been up against some top caliber builders. you want parity run your clones on EL's and you'll have parity (those damn bricks take actual power out of the equation for the most part, not entirely though). And I wouldn't let my clones go even on a 500 dollar claimer rule (current track I run had that claim rule about two years ago, it's since been dropped), I'd rather have them torn down in tech (it's cheaper to have it rebuild and put back together than to have a brand new clone built). Tech keeps everything fair, for the most part.

I'll add that I strive to win, to utterly dominate, that's the whole point in racing. A shiny good looking kart wont get me to the front all by its self. My equipment is well maintained and my body isn't all torn up but it isn't covered in "bling" it looked good in an under stated way that is until the last money race where it was obliterated.
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I think we are looking at this from totally different perspectives. I started my track not really a backyard track but by many standards not too much more than one to get kids onto racing and provide racing availability to people who couldn't afford a modified or late model car. It's a place to get started I'm against sanctions and the money they cost the sport but that's another post for another day. Our racing is about building a passion for the sport for the kids and making it affordable and within reach. You seem to have some sort of illusion that you are going to one day be a proffessional kart racer and any one who doesn't race the way you do is wrong and less than you but truth is people who belittle others and beG about the money they spend to win are the ones who keep others away so its a good thing that you wouldn't comee here to race because you probably wouldn't fit in around here seeing as how much greater you are than the rest of us and all.
 
chromejunkie said:
I think we are looking at this from totally different perspectives. I started my track not really a backyard track but by many standards not too much more than one to get kids onto racing and provide racing availability to people who couldn't afford a modified or late model car. It's a place to get started I'm against sanctions and the money they cost the sport but that's another post for another day. Our racing is about building a passion for the sport for the kids and making it affordable and within reach. You seem to have some sort of illusion that you are going to one day be a proffessional kart racer and any one who doesn't race the way you do is wrong and less than you but truth is people who belittle others and beG about the money they spend to win are the ones who keep others away so its a good thing that you wouldn't comee here to race because you probably wouldn't fit in around here seeing as how much greater you are than the rest of us and all.
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I'm not putting you down, simply showing you that there are flaws/differences in how you approach things compared to how the established sanctioning bodies have approached things. Plus once you build up your series it's going to become competitive, that's human nature. I'll bet at some point down the road at your track someones going to accuse someone else of cheating... then what? these sanctioning bodies also supply insurances for tracks, racing dangerous and I'd hate to see someone possibly sue you for an accident at your track.

Plus my experience and the races I raced nationally in years past and the wins I garnered in state series' and on the national stage are proof to myself that yes I am a "professional" as you say but let me say this, no matter how much money has been sunk into karting it's always been a hobby and these days I don't run very much at all because my priorities have changed.

I'm as down to earth as they come, the only thing is I'm not looking at the world with rose tinted glasses on. On the few weekends I have off during the year I'm either racing or at the track helping friends and catching up with people I haven't seen in a while. So before you try and kick dirt on someone take a step back and look at what they're saying.

The whole lets get back to stock racing and lets all have a good time crap has gone on before, history is simply repeating itself.

I'm well aware that money doesn't grow on trees and that there those that have less than I have but karting is a hobby, not a way of life for many people. The truth is, if you have a hard time affording engines from harbor freight and buying old karts that really aren't worth 500 bucks then I think you need to reevaluate your situation. There are other hobbies that you can get you kids into that cost a lot less than karting. Your local school system or parks and rec centers have tons of sports for the younger generation to play in that cost much less than karting and all instill the values of winning and losing as teams and individuals with dignity and respect.
 
Am I missing something here? The predator is made the same place as the clone. What is it that makes everyone think that it is not going to go down the same road as the clone has as far as evolution? do you truly think there aren't guys out there that aren't going to try to get as much cam, crank stroke, light weight internals as possible to be more competitive than the next guy? Fill me in on how this is going to be stopped?
 
DynoDon said:
Am I missing something here? The predator is made the same place as the clone. What is it that makes everyone think that it is not going to go down the same road as the clone has as far as evolution? do you truly think there aren't guys out there that aren't going to try to get as much cam, crank stroke, light weight internals as possible to be more competitive than the next guy? Fill me in on how this is going to be stopped?
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you're not missing anything, some people just seem to think that they're living in a utopia and that nothing will ever go wrong.
 
apex96 is right. tracks everywhere have tried what your doing including one I had. Don't beat yourself up when it won't work. as long as theres better parts around a few will start buying them then before you know it everybody will to be competitive. You'll have to have rules to tech by or you might as well let everything run. I race to win everytime we leave for the track, that's everybodys competitive nature or at least most of us. If I think I don't have a chance I might as well stay home and watch TV. It will be easier running your track with rules and a good tech man than without having either. A motor is just a small piece of the equation when you figure in chassi and tires so don't let the expense of the motor keep you from racing. if that's the case you need to find another hobby. We run clones and will be running Opens and I know going in what it will take to be competitive.
JMO
 
Well, some good points were made while I was at work, but my question never got answered,so here is what I would like to point out. If you complain I am not legal, then we MUST come up with a way for me to prove I am, or you to prove I am not. That means listing specifications relating to engine parts, and the sizes they should or could be inside the wide range of stock configurations found in the rather loosely-machined engines. Once we have those specifications, we can now build our engines to meet the known-to be stock measurements. In other words, If the known to be stock combustion chamber size is 26.5cc, but mine is 29cc, I can change mine to 26.5 and still be at a known to be stock measurement. It is that way with each component in the engine. Unfortunately, These measurements need to exist so you and I can be checked. And once they exist, we will build to them. That makes them stock, like it or not, because they meet stock measurements
 
Why not have a pure stock class. Nothing changed on motor. Then if you want to make modifications move up to the other classes. If no one shows that night to run pure stock then there is not racing for that class. Seat time at a slower pace for a rookie. Get a year or so under your belt and then move up.
 
If the track owns the motors, nobody has to prove legality of them. I race to win, like everyone else -- I'm a 4x state champ -- but I don't race-to-win-at-all-costs. If you want to keep racing cheap, you have to have a gentlemen's agreement to keep it that way. And when someone breaks that agreement, you need to boot them or go down the road of rule creep and cost creep. I'm not against all-out unlimited-budget racing, but there should be a niche where the newbie / cheapskate / recreational racer can thrive and not be cherrypicked by the pros.

And this is exactly why most sanctioning bodies have a real licensing system with performance tie-ins and penalties, not the buy-an-unrestricted-license-with-membership that most US karting licenses are.
 
Tracks owning engines don't work because everyone knows the track gives the good ones to their friends and best customers. That's the only reason certain favorite racers win and I don't. And that's why me and my buddies ain't going back to the track.
 
predator engine will turn into what the clone did. all you are doing is making another class that we don't need. i don't understand why you would use a motor than has 20 different versions. i agree how do you tech to prove you aren't cheating. if you want to take the motor out of mix use narrower and harder tires and motor won't matter. you can build a good clone yourself for 350 dollars. i'm all for cutting cost like a one set of tires a night rule that would save more than any motor would.
 
DynoDon said:
Am I missing something here? The predator is made the same place as the clone. What is it that makes everyone think that it is not going to go down the same road as the clone has as far as evolution? do you truly think there aren't guys out there that aren't going to try to get as much cam, crank stroke, light weight internals as possible to be more competitive than the next guy? Fill me in on how this is going to be stopped?
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Exactly right Don. In my area you can now by a professionally built Predator for the stock air box class with weenie pipe (that has a $200 claim rule) for the super low price of $400... or more if you wish to spend it. Not quite the $150 stock motor it used to be just a few short months ago.
 
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