Well, one reason would be to create a place for those racers who are growing frustrated with the exploding costs of the clone class and the issues associated with trying to keep a predator class "stock". Keeping those people in Karting rather than finding other places to spend their fun dollar might be legitimate.
Well, one reason would be to create a place for those racers who are growing frustrated with the exploding costs of the clone class and the issues associated with trying to keep a predator class "stock". Keeping those people in Karting rather than finding other places to spend their fun dollar might be legitimate.
racing promotor
Moderator
You just said the key to it yourself, KEEP the predator stock and you get better chance at drawing in new racers, plus keep the racer you refer to in the game without adding another class.
While I agree with you, there are loads of people who are terrified of methanol because of not being able to see it burning.
I guess when I have lit some up to get rid of it, I could always see the flames.
There are people terrified of an oxygen bottle exploding as well.
Probably hard to see without anything else burning and in bright sunlight. I did see a kart catch fire in a race and the flames were quite visible (night race). It was extinguished easily by a sharp track crew with water. It was a champ kart, don't want to think about what could have happened with gas.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
While I agree that most tracks don't need more classes...
I totally disagree with your statement about the 206 not bringing in new people to the sport. From our experience, I'd suggest that 75% of the people in 206 are either brand new, or returning from a karting hiatus (primarily due to escalating cost.) Yes, some migrate to the class from clones or other engines that they are currently competing with.
You can't ignore how the L206 has totaly revived sprint karting.
racing promotor
Moderator
Were talking dirt oval racing, complete different mentality than sprint racers, after 2 yrs IF you ended up with 10 in the class 9 would be from other classes, also for dirt oval you'll draw in 10 new racers with a predator vs 1 with the 206, this thread is a survey other survey type post asking problems at tracks everyone of them would have in them to many classes show takes to long, and everyone of the guy's on here liking adding the 206 would agree with those 2 things being a problem including you, plus would ask the track owners how did we end up with so many classes well here's a prime example of how, last thing dirt oval racing needs is another motor option or even a different class with a current motor option.
BrendanFitz#73
Mohawk Dawg
Ken makes a very good point. I like the 206 it is reliable and easy to maintain. Unfortunately dirt racing here in the midwest follows whatever trend is going on in the southeast so if clones and predators are the big thing then thats what you find up here. Luckily my local track has a decent field of all 3 and animals and 2 strokes so theres something for everybody. The predator is a nice option for people starting out but after watching those guys for a couple years and seeing how they run its more like a demo derby. Kinda pathetic if you ask me. Not to mention even the flatheads are faster and those guys race cleaner. With no true sanctioning body the engine options will continue to be darn near limitless and we will see the same thing happen time and time again. Animals, then clones, and now predators. They all creep up in price as popularity increases. We all see it but nobody has the backing to change it, not even briggs.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Well, I guess that summed it up in one sentence. LOL
D
Deleted member 21174
Guest
We do sprint karting and at our last race about 2/3 of the entries were LO206.
Ran my original 206 3 seasons with regular maintenance.
Bought a new one when that one went out of date. Dropped the old one of to be converted to a full blown animal.
If you look big picture. Now I can run another class or two on saturday night.
That's the ideal way the 206 would grow karting example:
Buy 206 for my son to run on Jr champ (restricted) when he outgrows the Jr champ class we move up. Convert motor and keep on racing.
Bought a new one when that one went out of date. Dropped the old one of to be converted to a full blown animal.
If you look big picture. Now I can run another class or two on saturday night.
That's the ideal way the 206 would grow karting example:
Buy 206 for my son to run on Jr champ (restricted) when he outgrows the Jr champ class we move up. Convert motor and keep on racing.
BrendanFitz#73
Mohawk Dawg
I believe this was briggs original intent for them. At least thats what I always thought seen as its just a sealed animal...
D
Deleted member 21174
Guest
We just got a 2nd one and may use the "B" engine as hot rod type fun project at some point.
"J'-remy
Member
Remember the flathead and wka rules? you could go anywhere and race and the rules were pretty much the same everywhere. there were stock and limited if you wanted some speed . now you need to check the track to find out if they are NKA AKRA or whatever mix of the rules they want AKRA general NKA engine. I understand we have plate classes and kids/ senior predator and clone/predator champ etc etc. my ideal would be the l206 stock and limited again EVERYWHERE. but it looks as though people are selling l206 with headwork for $1000.00 why not just by a clone the rebuild is cheaper. there are so many classes with 4 to 5 drivers it takes all night to go through them all and we sit around waiting for the class to be called also some tracks have different weight classes why would you have a predator 360 when the other local tracks are all 375. or a 390 just to through a monkey wrench into the game. I would love to travel around a little and test my skill on other tracks if it wasn't for all the inconsistency between three states. all within 3 hours of me. If you wanted to do something for the sport have akra and nka merge and make a set of rules everyone followed
racing promotor
Moderator
Briggs original intent was to slow done the progress of the clone hoping the 206 would end up the choice, BUT they were to late to the dance,
BrendanFitz#73
Mohawk Dawg
Yes they were I'll agree with you there. Their stragety on releasing that was just stupid. Briggs sure has screwed a lot up for kart racing but I will say its nice to have an option of something better after they update seals which IMO is too random.
"J'-remy
Member
I thought the animal came out and the reason for the clone was the price of the animal after being built? Now the clone is expensive and the predator has taken the place of the original box stock project. I am nervous about laying money down on an engine that will be obsolete in a few years and i am troubled by people not playing fair in the predator class. its hard for me to see any direction to follow. I see people snubbing the l206 because they have so much invested in their clone motors. the clone price crept up to what it is today incrementally first a pipe then a flywheel etc etc. it will be hard for people justify shelling out for a completely new engine package and have it follow the current trend of a little here and a little there we will have 1000 predators before too long. just wait till we all have to go electric one day.
BrendanFitz#73
Mohawk Dawg
Problem numero uno with dirt racers is they all say they want a fair class to race in. Then someone from out of town shows up and waxes them. So the first thing everyone looks at is how can I get faster without much thought. First thing most go to is the engine. We all say the game is tires tires tires but most budget guys dont take the time to figure the tire game out and think the engine will make them immediately faster. Then others see it and think they need that too and then we are in a another clone predicament.
The 206 has a miniscule if not non existent chance at catching on with the national dirt crowd. Because theres no real power gains to be had over the next guy and it comes down to tires and chassis setup which obviously not very many are good at.
For me I see it as a better option because you can always cut the seals, change the coil, and convert to meth and you have a basic animal. Will it compete with a true blueprinted animal no but at least you have another option to use the engine.
Just my 2 cents.
The 206 has a miniscule if not non existent chance at catching on with the national dirt crowd. Because theres no real power gains to be had over the next guy and it comes down to tires and chassis setup which obviously not very many are good at.
For me I see it as a better option because you can always cut the seals, change the coil, and convert to meth and you have a basic animal. Will it compete with a true blueprinted animal no but at least you have another option to use the engine.
Just my 2 cents.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
"people are selling l206 with headwork for $1000.00 why not just by a clone the rebuild is cheaper"
You are correct -- but then again, there are builders selling clones for $1500 & Predators (with the governor still in tact) for $650! Engine builders will charge what the market allows - that's not going to change.
Now, for the comment that clone rebuilds are cheaper....I have NEVER seen that to be true.
L206 rebuilds are $150 (parts AND labor.) I don't see anyone rebuilding an AKRA or NKA clone that inexpensively.
"The 206 has a miniscule if not non existent chance at catching on with the national dirt crowd. Because theres no real power gains to be had over the next guy and it comes down to tires and chassis setup which obviously not very many are good at."
I've been saying this all along.
With the L206, you can no longer blame your engine (or builder/tuner) if you don't win. With most kart racers, the driver is also the chassis and tire guy at the track. There's really no one to point the finger at anymore when you don't win. For most racers, you're looking in the mirror for who's responsible.
For years in blueprinted classes, it's been scratching and clawing to get every last Nth out of the engines, and if you didn't win, there must surely be that magical part (cam/pipe/carb/etc) that some other engine builder has found first, so guys jump from one part (or builder) to the next in search of that magical silver bullet. With the L206, that silver bullet is not likely to be the engine itself. It's certainly much harder to "buy" an advantage in the engine department.
You are correct -- but then again, there are builders selling clones for $1500 & Predators (with the governor still in tact) for $650! Engine builders will charge what the market allows - that's not going to change.
Now, for the comment that clone rebuilds are cheaper....I have NEVER seen that to be true.
L206 rebuilds are $150 (parts AND labor.) I don't see anyone rebuilding an AKRA or NKA clone that inexpensively.
"The 206 has a miniscule if not non existent chance at catching on with the national dirt crowd. Because theres no real power gains to be had over the next guy and it comes down to tires and chassis setup which obviously not very many are good at."
I've been saying this all along.
With the L206, you can no longer blame your engine (or builder/tuner) if you don't win. With most kart racers, the driver is also the chassis and tire guy at the track. There's really no one to point the finger at anymore when you don't win. For most racers, you're looking in the mirror for who's responsible.
For years in blueprinted classes, it's been scratching and clawing to get every last Nth out of the engines, and if you didn't win, there must surely be that magical part (cam/pipe/carb/etc) that some other engine builder has found first, so guys jump from one part (or builder) to the next in search of that magical silver bullet. With the L206, that silver bullet is not likely to be the engine itself. It's certainly much harder to "buy" an advantage in the engine department.
"J'-remy
Member
My understanding was that the sealed block was disposable at some point and that would be a $600 rebuild vs $4-500. if your referring to having the head rebuilt isn't that about the same? what do you get for $150 that sounds a little too good to be true. if there is no power advantage yet there is a quality/rebuild $$ advantage why not let the l206 run with the clone? the minimum it would do is force the builders to drop their prices to be competitive. i'm interested in saving money and not sending so much money overseas.