Box Stock

Builder Prices

Inventory=$$$$$. not sure what a dealer pays for a skid of motors but he's tying up his money in hope he can sell and move the product. Just like Harbor Freight when we were buying the ole centrals and blue Max. I could buy 5 at a time and have one jump out at me for whatever reason. Inconsistancy costs and takes more time.
 
jgm motorsports said:
Ones I build range from 550 to 750. My 550 motor is blue printed build dyno tuned and out the door. My 750 is hand picked every thing. Lot more time on dyno to make sure its the best I can give you. My 550 one is for the average Saturday night racer and will last all season. My 750 is for Big money races were every bit is going to count But your only going to get 4-5 races and its going to start to lose power. You can build for fast or to last just depends on what you plan to do with it.

What people dont under stand is what it takes to build a high end motor. We may go threw 4 block 3 cranks 3 carbs 6 heads and the list goes on. Just to find that one that is better. Like cranks one maybe max stroke but out of round. Next might be in round but short stroke. You just go threw till you find exactly what you want. So lot of times this is why the big names charge more because this is how they are building and why it takes so long to do.
Click to expand...

And...."That's the Truth!" My suggestion is...."If you race locally, buy locally!" Better yet....Do-it-yourself and learn from the experience!
 
jgm motorsports said:
First problem. Is mass produced Chinese motor. With 500 diff molds. Some parts never make it in a motor. I just trashed a crank that was out of round and way short on stroke. That not going in any motor I build. Blocks some the line up of the cylinder is a little straighter than others. I dont think Ive ever cked 2 rods that were the same. Some are longer some shorter than average. Some the pin and crank journals are little off. Ive trashed a few rods.

My 550 motor is simply this an average motor. It will run with the guys on Saturday night at your local track and last longer. You could go buy one from a suppler Clearance it dyno tune it and have the same thing.
My 750 motor is better than average. Hand picked everything. BEST OF THE BEST. It has more clearance built into it and right on the line every part of it. Its built for the max but its not going to last long. Your simply paying for my extra time to build. I also dont recommend this motor to just an average weekend racer. But if your going to a race were you know that 99% of the field is going to be dead on set up and tire. That is were this motor is going to come in.

Fact on my team karts they run the 550 motor locally and win. When we go to a big show they have one hand picked to run per kart. Simply because the above average part are hard to come by.
Click to expand...

It amazes me at how many people don't understand this! They buy 'cheap', then...they can't figure why they can't 'win'! (I don't do 'stocker's any longer!)
 
So now we are throwing out cranks because they are not max stroke?
Smokey said give him the longest rod possible, that wont happen with max stroke
It stands to reason if Jimmy Simm's is hand picking the best parts for his engine, then everything else he is selling to the public is scrapes?
in 1 10 hour day I can go through a bunch of parts testing them, labeling them so when an engine is built I reach and grab the best parts in inventory
all this time guys say they have in these engines is bs, one sells one for a high price and everyone else has to raise prices or they are seen as inferior builders 15 years in karting, and a lifetime in racing, i've ;earned one thing, a fool and his money are soon parted, its all based on perception
 
XXX#40 said:
So now we are throwing out cranks because they are not max stroke?
Click to expand...

No we don't, balance is way more important than a few thousandths of stroke.

XXX#40 said:
Smokey said give him the longest rod possible, that wont happen with max stroke.
Click to expand...

Why not? Some blocks are .030 in the hole, max crank + .010 rod and your still .015 in the hole. Could have put in a .025 rod if they were available.

XXX#40 said:
It stands to reason if Jimmy Simm's is hand picking the best parts for his engine, then everything else he is selling to the public is scrapes?
Click to expand...

Jimmy does pick the parts that go into his engines, and he imports the same parts. So what he sells is the same as what is in the complete engines.

XXX#40 said:
in 1 10 hour day I can go through a bunch of parts testing them, labeling them so when an engine is built I reach and grab the best parts in inventory
Click to expand...

Just because you pick what you think are the best parts does not mean they will all work together in perfect harmony. Maybe you get a block that the cylinder is a little off center. How do you get everything straight? Don't throw those rods with the slightly out of line bore away. Does the shape of a valve help or hurt flow? The best valve in a JT-109 may be junk in a JT-86. Hint: the flow bench will sometimes lie to you. Even Dyno's cams have to be hand picked for each engine, depending on crank gear position (not all cam bosses are in the exact same spot and a couple thousandths can be huge.


XXX#40 said:
all this time guys say they have in these engines is bs, one sells one for a high price and everyone else has to raise prices or they are seen as inferior builders 15 years in karting, and a lifetime in racing, i've ;earned one thing, a fool and his money are soon parted, its all based on perception
Click to expand...

You are more than welcome to come and time me from start to finish. If I am lucky I can be done in 6 hours, if I'm unlucky it could be 3 days. As far as pricing I am in the middle, I have more overhead than some small builders but everything I have is paid for, Building, equipment and inventory. Some builders have higher overhead, Financing, rent, mortgage, factory riders to support, sponsorship checks to write and way more than our 3 employees.



By the way you are starting to argue with people. Won't be long before they will be able to link those posts. LOL
 
The thing that gets me is. You pay "X" amount of $$$ from a national builder and if your not sponsored by them or a big national name. You dont get the "Top shelf motor" i know of 2 companys like this.
 
Bmsracin32 said:
The thing that gets me is. You pay "X" amount of $$$ from a national builder and if your not sponsored by them or a big national name. You dont get the "Top shelf motor" i know of 2 companys like this.
Click to expand...

Exactly, racers see a team kart win and they think because they buy from that builder they'll get there best, not happening
 
Renegade said:
No we don't, balance is way more important than a few thousandths of stroke.

The builder above you said he did, i rest my case



Why not? Some blocks are .030 in the hole, max crank + .010 rod and your still .015 in the hole. Could have put in a .025 rod if they were available.

Havent seen any of the new clones that deep in the hole, now the early blue motors yes.



Jimmy does pick the parts that go into his engines, and he imports the same parts. So what he sell is the same as what is in the complete engines.
so all the engines he sells have hand picked parts? doesnt that then make the builders labor less?
Click to expand...
Again another BUILDERS excuse
I have to question how some new builders means of determining if a crank is out of round, and since the clone came out many guys are calling themselves builders
 
youngengines said:
All I am gonna say is, if it's that easy..just do it yourself then. If I cant make any money doing it, I will just do something else. I have bills to pay, the same as everyone else.
Click to expand...
X2. Like Bennie i have spent 10-12 hours plus to peak one out. Ppl that haven't built them don't know that its a lot of slow work, its all in the details and time spent on an engine that makes them capable of winnig from local to national championshilp races...
 
XXX#40 said:
Again another BUILDERS excuse
I have to question how some new builders means of determining if a crank is out of round, and since the clone came out many guys are calling themselves builders
Click to expand...


You have made up your mind and no one is going to change it. How does that saying go?

"He knows what he knows so don't try and confuse him with the truth"

It looks like your rectillosis is acting up. LOL
 
Renegade said:
You have made up your mind and no one is going to change it. How does that saying go?

"He knows what he knows so don't try and confuse him with the truth"

It looks like your rectillosis is acting up. LOL
Click to expand...
Hows that saying go
"If you cant dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS"
Not arguing stating my opinion on an open forum
 
Oh so true, but why did you go for the baffle option first?:p




ZINGGGGGGGGGG!


That was bad of me. I really just messing with you, I promise.
 
XXX#40 said:
Yup his dyno tuned BSP is 450.00 why is yours so high?
Click to expand...

Jamie,

These guys have a right to charge for what they feel their time is worth. You trying to raise such a stink about that is not going to change that. You have stated you have an engine builder who will sale you a dyno tuned BSP for $450. That's all good but don't be so upset that there are builders selling for higher than that and that there are people who are willing to pay more than that. It's every individuals choice and they do not have to answer to anyone to make it justifiable. It's a free market.
 
In my opinion , money is not the criteria for buying a engine, go with someone you TRUST and will be at the races you attend (above club or weekly level) . If the engine builder you trust costs a little more then pay it and don't complain . If you are not getting the engine you think is right then go back and rethink the trust you have in that builder ....
 
people think they need a national level motor to compete at a local track. You need a good motor and better tires and set up than the rest. I don't care how quick you get down the straight away if your tires and kart aren't right i'll pass you in the turns. a free kart and forward bite will win you races. I don't care how fast you are entering the turn i'm concerned how fast I am are off turn 4 to the flagstand!
 
XXX#40 said:
Yup his dyno tuned BSP is 450.00 why is yours so high?
Click to expand...

Yeah you can take a motor off the shelf. Stick a small pipe on it. Put a billet flywheel on degree key. Drill jet. Dyno it and call it dyno tuned. If thats how you what to race thats fine with me. Buy from him. But when you get your butt handed to you. On every strait and restart. Dont cry about it. You got what you paid for.
 
Triton 54 said:
You get what you pay for cheap price cheap moter.
Click to expand...

This is not always true some builders dont do it to make a living at it some do it to help racers out. Almost all parts for the clone motors are pretty cheap. I work 60+ hours a week at a body shop and build motors on the side. I have every tool there is and yes they r expensive but i have no overhead and only do it as a hobby. My motors sell for 600 and my rebuilds r 220-250 depending on parts needed.
 
rdpowersc said:
This is not always true some builders dont do it to make a living at it some do it to help racers out. Almost all parts for the clone motors are pretty cheap. I work 60+ hours a week at a body shop and build motors on the side. I have every tool there is and yes they r expensive but i have no overhead and only do it as a hobby. My motors sell for 600 and my rebuilds r 220-250 depending on parts needed.
Click to expand...

The same thing goes the other way. I know people that have full time jobs and do body work on the side. They can be cheaper than a full time body shop. That don't mean the full time body shop should do the jobs cheaper. I'm not saying that's what you mean though. The problem is, some people work a job making $20.00 an hour (just for example), but think an engine builder shouldn't make that much. I have seen it time and time again, not just in kart engines either. If a guy can build his own engine, then do it. I have been a drag racer most of my life, and had to compete against guys with big money builders. I never complained, just did what I could (and won my share I think). JMO
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top