Burris 33s
- Thread starter LynnRacing
- Start date
WV_Race_Fan
New member
You are with the #82 kart. I remember that race. It was in the day, hot and very abraisive and a little dusty. I helped Ron Rollins in the #58 throughout the summer before he quit. So I've been to every one they've had so far. But I doubt the tires you were on were full rubber and unprepped. And have you been able to make that set of tires go anymore since then? I've just been scared of the B Series because I don't know much about them. All we've ran all summer is ss-33a's and b-55's.
Later,
WV Race Fan
ddracing28
Member
This one is for burris or anyone that has tested it How do the b33b an b44b compare to a good set of 55s on a medium to high biting track? Like lap time wise? I know the ss33a at the burris money series is quite a bit slower vs a properly worked set of 55s
Maybe if people would lisen to the burris guy it may make more sence to you if you take a 55 and put the jug to it it changes the tires now its not a real 55 !! This hobby / sport / job call it what ever ... Is really fun but i have seen way to many get out of it because of all this prep crap !! Go figure ! Its just not needed in the sport .........
Mr Burris,
I have some questions...
The set up changes you noted were less left side, much less camber and more air pressure. You also note consistent success moving from a 10" rim to a 9" rim and dramatically more air pressure to proivde a wider sweet spot.
I'm going on record saying all of what you say there is 100% TRUE. If you lack bite and you aren't using chemicals then you can make bite by loading the right side tires harder, putting more tire into the race track and giving the tire more sidewall.
Any time you do any of the above, you are adding variables to your kart. We've spent the better part of the last 15 years reducing variables in karting. Essentially you're creating rolling resistence in the chassis, increasing volatility of setup as the tire changes temps and destabilizing the kart with air pressure.
The whole purpose of going to the 10" rim over the 9" is because it rolls freer. The whole point of going to the high left side setup is it rolls freer. The whole point of going to higher camber is to reduce rolling resistance. The whole point of reducing air pressure is to stabilize the kart and make it more consistent.
My question is are you suggesting these chassis changes make the kart faster overall or simply faster with an unmodified tire?
I have some questions...
The set up changes you noted were less left side, much less camber and more air pressure. You also note consistent success moving from a 10" rim to a 9" rim and dramatically more air pressure to proivde a wider sweet spot.
I'm going on record saying all of what you say there is 100% TRUE. If you lack bite and you aren't using chemicals then you can make bite by loading the right side tires harder, putting more tire into the race track and giving the tire more sidewall.
Any time you do any of the above, you are adding variables to your kart. We've spent the better part of the last 15 years reducing variables in karting. Essentially you're creating rolling resistence in the chassis, increasing volatility of setup as the tire changes temps and destabilizing the kart with air pressure.
The whole purpose of going to the 10" rim over the 9" is because it rolls freer. The whole point of going to the high left side setup is it rolls freer. The whole point of going to higher camber is to reduce rolling resistance. The whole point of reducing air pressure is to stabilize the kart and make it more consistent.
My question is are you suggesting these chassis changes make the kart faster overall or simply faster with an unmodified tire?
highlander
Member
Do you need to cut the b33 or just resurface
Geeee ole jwd i know you know that answer you ask the burris guy !! Lollll! We the people who would like the crap / jug gone are just trying to m,ake the the point that the crap is not nessersary to race wayyyy to much time and engery involved ! Okkk you start your reaction lol!!! Like you guys always done .....
Of course I know the answer, and so do you.
As someone who knows both how to use the chassis and how to use the jug, I can tell you absolutely the jug requires way less time and energy and provides a much more consistent result.
I'm LAZY!! I'm going to do things the easy way. At the race track it is mcuh Much MUCH easier to adjust a tire or a chemical than it is to adjust a chassis. Left side, not so much if you invested the time in your chassis during the week. But camber, you can knock yourself in a hurry if you don't take your time, make sure you've $1000s worth of equipment on hand and a couple good pit hands.
Air pressure is another variable. It's very dependent on the racetrack. If the racetrack stays smooth and together, you can run a ton of air pressure. But thats very rare in a dirt track. They tend to break up, chip out, develop ruts and holes. If you have tire full of air and you hit those ruts and holes, you don't have control of your kart. It's going to bounce, lift and land. If you have the tires flat then they will roll through the ruts and holes and you'll be faster.
There seems to be a misunderstanding between those who use the jug effectively and those who don't. We don't care for the chemicals either. But, it's the simplest, fastest way around the race track.
If you want to get rid of chemicals, you're barking up the wrong tree with tires and tire rules. You need to modifly the chassis rules. If you mandate an 1 1/8" frame rail, if you mandate a straight rear cross member, if you mandate a 16" rear seat height, if you mandate a maximum leftside weight (like NASCAR does), if you mandate narrow rims, you'll see the jugs go away. We use chemicals because it is faster to run the chassis free and the tire tight, than it is to run the chassis tight and the tire free.
As someone who knows both how to use the chassis and how to use the jug, I can tell you absolutely the jug requires way less time and energy and provides a much more consistent result.
I'm LAZY!! I'm going to do things the easy way. At the race track it is mcuh Much MUCH easier to adjust a tire or a chemical than it is to adjust a chassis. Left side, not so much if you invested the time in your chassis during the week. But camber, you can knock yourself in a hurry if you don't take your time, make sure you've $1000s worth of equipment on hand and a couple good pit hands.
Air pressure is another variable. It's very dependent on the racetrack. If the racetrack stays smooth and together, you can run a ton of air pressure. But thats very rare in a dirt track. They tend to break up, chip out, develop ruts and holes. If you have tire full of air and you hit those ruts and holes, you don't have control of your kart. It's going to bounce, lift and land. If you have the tires flat then they will roll through the ruts and holes and you'll be faster.
There seems to be a misunderstanding between those who use the jug effectively and those who don't. We don't care for the chemicals either. But, it's the simplest, fastest way around the race track.
If you want to get rid of chemicals, you're barking up the wrong tree with tires and tire rules. You need to modifly the chassis rules. If you mandate an 1 1/8" frame rail, if you mandate a straight rear cross member, if you mandate a 16" rear seat height, if you mandate a maximum leftside weight (like NASCAR does), if you mandate narrow rims, you'll see the jugs go away. We use chemicals because it is faster to run the chassis free and the tire tight, than it is to run the chassis tight and the tire free.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Spot on, couldn't have said it better myself, Joey.
Thank you!
Being a chassis builder of our our design over the past 20 years or so, I can tell you first hand that chassis evolution has progressed to the point that stiffer and stiffer (also free-er) karts have been built and require more and more "glue" to hook them up (especially on midwest low/no bite tracks.) I still build some very soft chassis that will work well on our local tracks. Take that same chassis down south to a high bite track and you'll get it handed to you.
That's why you often see older chassis (ie Nemesis, Phenoms, etc.) still being competitive at low bite tracks.
-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
27 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Lollllllll .. The dam jugs need to gooo out of this sport ! Big guy just said he was lazy ha ha ! Thats his issue /... Still have not seen a good reason for this crap but just like other issues people are going to just follow the bs.. To hear some talk we really only need 0ne type of tire and a millions types of preps just another way to get your money .. I have done it all and that crap is a wase of good energy...
All you have to do is win races with out it and everyone will follow your bs and it will greatly help our sport.
Show us how its done then Jim, take your non prepped tires and knowledge to a big series race and dominate since you say its so easy to do and can be done, then everyone will just throw away the jugs and go back to the way it was 20 years ago. You seem to me like one of those old farts who never could understand the tire game or learn the prep, so you choose to whine about it every chance you get, and probably sit around telling storys about "the good old days" when nobody used prep and everybody was basically on the same chassis. You, sir, seriously need to learn how the new generation of chassis work and exactly what prep is used for instead of complaining about it on a web forum every chance you get, its seriously played out by now, fella!
"To hear some talk we really only need 0ne type of tire and a millions types of preps just another way to get your money." (that's the Maxxis philosophy, that's why they buy up all the tracks) my personal opinion is all tracks and all classes should be open tire rule and we'd see the chemicals use drop dramatically, I've won lots of open 2 cycle dirt races on 5" Burris D-2's and 2 piece wheels, without any prep back in the day.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Keep in mind that you were likely competing against others on the same uncut, unprepped treaded tires.
Today there are tracks that mandate treaded tires. We also cut them to half tread or less and prep the snot out of them just like you would do if everyone were on slicks. While the treaded rule may have been "intended" to make a fair/level playing field and to reduce the cost of cutting & prepping, in reality all the rule did was make it more expensive (treaded tires themselves are considerably more expensive) for everyone involved.
If you're on treaded tires today, you had better believe you'll be cutting and prepping those as well -- all it takes is one of your competitors to do it, and then the whole field has to step up if they want to compete.
Karting was certainly simpler back in the day.
Bigger question might be if "simpler" is better for the longevity of the sport?
Should karting be about the competition (go fast at all costs) or camaraderie (just for fun)?
I think the answer is likely to be different for each person you ask. In reality, there has to be a healthy balance for the sport to exist (and hopefully GROW.)
Burris Racing
Site Supporter
Re: Treaded tire reference
I’m not going to say that nobody cuts or preps treaded tires, but I will say that I go to a lot of tracks and events across the country and deal with a lot of guys who are considered to be at the top of their game. With that said, I don’t see these guys cutting their treads and very seldom (if ever, do they prep them). Many of these same guys have experimented with it and it was unconvincing that there were any gains. The fast guys I know are running treads as supplied and as a matter of fact a friend in the Midwest who has a longtime Karting background just got into the outlaw karts and felt he had to go down the road of cutting and prepping because it’s what he did with his slicks. He’s now running faster and more consistently after we talked and has backed waaaaay up on the prep (little to none – hard to get him away from it all together) and no cutting what so ever.
I know that there is a long winded response coming to what I just said but just stating the facts as I know them from this end and not a guy trying to sell prep and cuts. While we would sell more tires to those who cut the rubber off them and kill them with chemicals, I’d rather see more guys in the sport and the reality of simpler methods of thought employed. No voodoo or sales pitch necessary.
I’m not going to say that nobody cuts or preps treaded tires, but I will say that I go to a lot of tracks and events across the country and deal with a lot of guys who are considered to be at the top of their game. With that said, I don’t see these guys cutting their treads and very seldom (if ever, do they prep them). Many of these same guys have experimented with it and it was unconvincing that there were any gains. The fast guys I know are running treads as supplied and as a matter of fact a friend in the Midwest who has a longtime Karting background just got into the outlaw karts and felt he had to go down the road of cutting and prepping because it’s what he did with his slicks. He’s now running faster and more consistently after we talked and has backed waaaaay up on the prep (little to none – hard to get him away from it all together) and no cutting what so ever.
I know that there is a long winded response coming to what I just said but just stating the facts as I know them from this end and not a guy trying to sell prep and cuts. While we would sell more tires to those who cut the rubber off them and kill them with chemicals, I’d rather see more guys in the sport and the reality of simpler methods of thought employed. No voodoo or sales pitch necessary.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Kurt,
Bring your kart to one of our low/no bite tracks. You send me two sets of tires a couple weeks in advance, and let me prove what I'm saying to you. BTW, you can set the car up any way that you like. I know there's been plenty of discussion in another thread about narrower wheels and running no rear stagger. That's not what I prefer, but I can work with that if you want. Been a while since I've spent some time talking with ya anyway.
No long winded answer. Just put up the tires and let's show everyone the on track results.
Many of the guys in Cali have gone to cuts and gotten away from running the wide right sides because the heavier tires simply bogs their stock class engines down too much. Now, on a 250 or 500, it might be a different story where you can overpower the tires. Then again, if they can use glue on the tires, they will.
Hey, I cut and prep tires most every day in the shop and I wish it would all go away.
It just ain't happenin.'
Bring your kart to one of our low/no bite tracks. You send me two sets of tires a couple weeks in advance, and let me prove what I'm saying to you. BTW, you can set the car up any way that you like. I know there's been plenty of discussion in another thread about narrower wheels and running no rear stagger. That's not what I prefer, but I can work with that if you want. Been a while since I've spent some time talking with ya anyway.
No long winded answer. Just put up the tires and let's show everyone the on track results.
Many of the guys in Cali have gone to cuts and gotten away from running the wide right sides because the heavier tires simply bogs their stock class engines down too much. Now, on a 250 or 500, it might be a different story where you can overpower the tires. Then again, if they can use glue on the tires, they will.
Hey, I cut and prep tires most every day in the shop and I wish it would all go away.
It just ain't happenin.'
I've parked all my stocker motors simply because it's tuned into boring tire flipping to be fast for one race then they're junk, money pit, tired of one tire manufacture bought up all the tracks close enough to run and you'll need at least 3 sets mounted & prepped & cured 3 months in advance, which = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ tied up in tires, wheels and prep. i'm moving up to classes where hp matters as much as tires such as SA, open mod., rwyb and UAS series with open tire rules, this tire and prep game is killing the sport more than any other factor and yeah I'm totally interested in some tires that we can stand up and run a little more tire pressure and they'll last for a few races, rather than the current 25 laps and they're done/junk tires. I'm all ears. BTW the 5" D-2s we ran were slicks, not treaded, I still have several D-25 5.50X5's that we used to run on the LF with oversteer via akerman to help turn the kart in and help the RF out.