can someone please explain.......

Why are we NOT running treaded tires on dirt tracks in the southeast? even if they are slower (they are only slower in certain scenarios) they are still 100x more exciting for the crowd to see go karts 3 wide. people who say they tear up the track.... that's a myth. if that were the case then the high hp sprint cars and late models tracks would not look like glassphalt. prep and sanding and all is very minimal when it comes to grooves as its not as necessary (not completely removed but not as relevant) Its crazy when you think about NOT running them.
 

BusterD

Member
Why are we NOT running treaded tires on dirt tracks in the southeast? even if they are slower (they are only slower in certain scenarios) they are still 100x more exciting for the crowd to see go karts 3 wide. people who say they tear up the track.... that's a myth. if that were the case then the high hp sprint cars and late models tracks would not look like glassphalt. prep and sanding and all is very minimal when it comes to grooves as its not as necessary (not completely removed but not as relevant) Its crazy when you think about NOT running them.
Because kart tracks are smooth and designed to lay rubber. Treads would KILL roll speed on hard fast tracks. Also, karts don’t have wheel spin like big cars (clone & predator classes at least). And I don’t view karts as a spectator sport. We race karts to see who can be the absolute fastest, and treaded tires don’t achieve that.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Evolution of the sport . If everyone were on treads there would be no preception of being slower as the gauge would have changed .
Slicks are perceived as an improvement and now its status quo.
No turning back now .
 

Menace61

Member
I run treads on a north east dirt track. Kart is very competitive week after week. And yes, nothing cooler than going three or four wide on the out side and blowing by everyone else.
 

Hooper46

Member
If you have your kart geared and tires right you can go around on the outside all the time... gotta go where everyone else aint
 
I run treads on a north east dirt track. Kart is very competitive week after week. And yes, nothing cooler than going three or four wide on the out side and blowing by everyone else.
We have a group of guys that are getting on treads here in the South East. hopefully it takes off.
 
Because kart tracks are smooth and designed to lay rubber. Treads would KILL roll speed on hard fast tracks. Also, karts don’t have wheel spin like big cars (clone & predator classes at least). And I don’t view karts as a spectator sport. We race karts to see who can be the absolute fastest, and treaded tires don’t achieve that.
Any racing is a spectator sport. If the crowd comes then the money come and the sport grows.
 

BusterD

Member
We have a group of guys that are getting on treads here in the South East. hopefully it takes off.
Where in the southeast? It’s all about your goals and what you want to achieve. If you’re just wanting to slide sideways, run side by side on treads and have fun with your buddies, great. Our goal is to be fast and travel to big races, to race against the best. Treads are a novelty that are usually run a just one particular track, creating a barrier to entry for regular karters. I remember we showed up at Atoka, outside Memphis, one night (many many years ago) and they were running treads. So we bought some to run. Never went back and those treads became kart-stand tires. And I just disagree fundamentally; Karting is not a spectator sport.
 
Where in the southeast? It’s all about your goals and what you want to achieve. If you’re just wanting to slide sideways, run side by side on treads and have fun with your buddies, great. Our goal is to be fast and travel to big races, to race against the best. Treads are a novelty that are usually run a just one particular track, creating a barrier to entry for regular karters. I remember we showed up at Atoka, outside Memphis, one night (many many years ago) and they were running treads. So we bought some to run. Never went back and those treads became kart-stand tires. And I just disagree fundamentally; Karting is not a spectator sport.
Right now we have Callahan, Jacksonville international, and deep south speedway in Nashville that will allow us to play around with grooves. (i run rwyb btw) but its still in its trial stages. i could see where slicks would be faster for a stock class. but rwyb and uas style karts should be on treads if noting more than for the control that they will give in the higher speeds (safety). I'm not a money chaser and I'm not serious enough to travel more than about 2 hours to go to a track but I'm lucky enough to have 5 tracks that fall within that category. I honestly would just like to let the tracks open up any sort of tire and let the racers decide what tire to be on. most tracks in the southeast are maxxis only tracks.
 

BusterD

Member
Right now we have Callahan, Jacksonville international, and deep south speedway in Nashville that will allow us to play around with grooves. (i run rwyb btw) but its still in its trial stages. i could see where slicks would be faster for a stock class. but rwyb and uas style karts should be on treads if noting more than for the control that they will give in the higher speeds (safety). I'm not a money chaser and I'm not serious enough to travel more than about 2 hours to go to a track but I'm lucky enough to have 5 tracks that fall within that category. I honestly would just like to let the tracks open up any sort of tire and let the racers decide what tire to be on. most tracks in the southeast are maxxis only tracks.
Well I can see your argument for running them in a RWYB class with a higher HP engine. But know they will beat up the track for your fellow karters in the stock classes.
 
Why are we NOT running treaded tires on dirt tracks in the southeast? even if they are slower (they are only slower in certain scenarios) they are still 100x more exciting for the crowd to see go karts 3 wide. people who say they tear up the track.... that's a myth. if that were the case then the high hp sprint cars and late models tracks would not look like glassphalt. prep and sanding and all is very minimal when it comes to grooves as its not as necessary (not completely removed but not as relevant) Its crazy when you think about NOT running them.

There are several tracks scattered across the country that utilize treaded tires.
Here are just a few of the myths debunked:

Treads don't tear the track up.
Wrong. Ask some of the racers who run at tracks that allow both treads and slicks to be run. The treaded tires pick up the race track surface (ie rooster tails), throw it in the air, and it falls back in the racing groove (not exactly conducive to the guys running slicks.
Now, if the track were already pounded down hard and slick, then it makes the treads ineffective - thus the reason slicks got popular to begin with.

Three wide racing is now possible with threads.
Wrong. Three wide racing is possible when the track is configured as such that all three grooves are equally fast. This has a lot more to do with track preparation than tires. Most karts are so badly underpowered (stock classes) that momentum is the name of the game -- (ie high in the straights, low in the corners = making a circle out of an oval.) Being equal in power makes it a freight train scenario where taking a chance on an outside line is simply not a wise decision most nights. Even starting on the outside is a deficit for most features at kart tracks today because the clean racing groove is so narrow and on the bottom of the corners. For this reason alone, many big races/series/etc. have gone to single file starts or made other rules to address the advantage that the inside line has.

At least the UAS (big HP) class should be on treads.
Wrong. These guys run faster lap times on slicks than treads as well. It is a personal preference at most tracks that run "opens or run-whatcha-brungs," and most UAS-style races continue to be won on slicks.

Sprint cars and late models running treads turn tracks to glassphalt.
These tracks slick off because the moisture is sealed over and/or wicked away by the larger tires and aero that they create. These cars typically chase the cushion upward toward the wall all night long, and on a properly prepared track will run where the moisture remains rather than in the glassphalt part of the track surface.

Treaded tires are somewhat excluded from cutting and prepping.
Wrong. We cut and prep treaded tires on a weekly basis through our shop. Cut treads are TONS faster in stock and underpowered classes (up to about 25 CHP or so.) Cutting and prepping still goes on, but now is considerably more time intensive and thus expensive. The tires themselves are considerably more expensive, so now you've got a set of tires that are at least $100/set more than the current prepared slick tires (which would still be faster.)

While I appreciate the many attempts to make karting inexpensive, going to treaded tires themselves is not the answer.
If a group of guys at a particular track want to run treads, I have no problem with that. Make a gentlemen's agreement to run treads of a particular brand, compound, no cutting, no prepping, etc. and just go have fun. Mandating this to the general karting public is not the answer (in my opinion.)


-----
?Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Brian,
There are several tracks scattered across the country that utilize treaded tires.
Here are just a few of the myths debunked:

Treads don't tear the track up.
Wrong. Ask some of the racers who run at tracks that allow both treads and slicks to be run. The treaded tires pick up the race track surface (ie rooster tails), throw it in the air, and it falls back in the racing groove (not exactly conducive to the guys running slicks.
Now, if the track were already pounded down hard and slick, then it makes the treads ineffective - thus the reason slicks got popular to begin with.

Three wide racing is now possible with threads.
Wrong. Three wide racing is possible when the track is configured as such that all three grooves are equally fast. This has a lot more to do with track preparation than tires. Most karts are so badly underpowered (stock classes) that momentum is the name of the game -- (ie high in the straights, low in the corners = making a circle out of an oval.) Being equal in power makes it a freight train scenario where taking a chance on an outside line is simply not a wise decision most nights. Even starting on the outside is a deficit for most features at kart tracks today because the clean racing groove is so narrow and on the bottom of the corners. For this reason alone, many big races/series/etc. have gone to single file starts or made other rules to address the advantage that the inside line has.

At least the UAS (big HP) class should be on treads.
Wrong. These guys run faster lap times on slicks than treads as well. It is a personal preference at most tracks that run "opens or run-whatcha-brungs," and most UAS-style races continue to be won on slicks.

Sprint cars and late models running treads turn tracks to glassphalt.
These tracks slick off because the moisture is sealed over and/or wicked away by the larger tires and aero that they create. These cars typically chase the cushion upward toward the wall all night long, and on a properly prepared track will run where the moisture remains rather than in the glassphalt part of the track surface.

Treaded tires are somewhat excluded from cutting and prepping.
Wrong. We cut and prep treaded tires on a weekly basis through our shop. Cut treads are TONS faster in stock and underpowered classes (up to about 25 CHP or so.) Cutting and prepping still goes on, but now is considerably more time intensive and thus expensive. The tires themselves are considerably more expensive, so now you've got a set of tires that are at least $100/set more than the current prepared slick tires (which would still be faster.)

While I appreciate the many attempts to make karting inexpensive, going to treaded tires themselves is not the answer.
If a group of guys at a particular track want to run treads, I have no problem with that. Make a gentlemen's agreement to run treads of a particular brand, compound, no cutting, no prepping, etc. and just go have fun. Mandating this to the general karting public is not the answer (in my opinion.)


-----
?Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com

Brian, Thanks for the response. I went out this weekend and tested a set of treads and everything you stated is 100% correct. now my next question is how do i make a tire soooo sticky that it sounds like tape being pulled up when it goes around the track? please pm me as i would like to discuss some ideas and maybe you can tell me if I'm headed in the right direction or not.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
Brian,


Brian, Thanks for the response. I went out this weekend and tested a set of treads and everything you stated is 100% correct. now my next question is how do i make a tire soooo sticky that it sounds like tape being pulled up when it goes around the track? please pm me as i would like to discuss some ideas and maybe you can tell me if I'm headed in the right direction or not.
why would you want a tire like that? they would just pick up dirt and be rendered useless
 

BrendanFitz#73

Mohawk Dawg
Why would you want a tire like that. It'd just lock you down and make you slower. IMHO get rid of cutting and prepping and the multiple sets of tires and make this more of a driver sport. Yeah right like that'll happen. Unfortunately the name of the karting game is tires tires tires and if you don't want to or can't afford to put the work in than you'll get left behind it's as simple as that.
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
At a local NC bullring (Stateline Speedway, Lawsonville, NC) I started with a set of treads....put on slicks, gained an instant .5 sec. on an 11 sec. laptime. Treads went back into trailer. But credit goes to the track, who let me run 'em, and they didn't tear up the track.... of course I was the only kart with them, and it was with a KT-100, which is (relatively) low powered and not likely to tear things up on acceleration... But still, the best argument I know for treads is that they allow recovery from a yawed situation (you can recover from slides better, or even hang it out there if you want...) Therefore, the argument that it produces a "wider" track is somewhat true. But it's still heavily dependent on track prep, I think. Esp. when kart tracks don't seem to produce real cushions.


NOTE: the day of this video, the track was a condition I'd NEVER seen before.... it would ripple and displace under your feet,. but was sealed over and took rubber on top....like racing on a giant jello ring with a crust... Odd.
 
Why would you want a tire like that. It'd just lock you down and make you slower. IMHO get rid of cutting and prepping and the multiple sets of tires and make this more of a driver sport. Yeah right like that'll happen. Unfortunately the name of the karting game is tires tires tires and if you don't want to or can't afford to put the work in than you'll get left behind it's as simple as that.
deadman, I have heard that a lot from all the stocker class guys. I run a 50hp kart that i WANT to lock down. I have yet to find a compound that will lock down a uas kart. That's why I am chasing a sticky sticky tire. I could possibly be chasing my tail but I'm still going to give it my best shot to get faster and faster every week.
 
55-60 duro right side rule might be a start to unhooking the karts some. Not sure it will widen the track any, probably the opposite but if its slip/sliding you might mess up and get out of the groove? Fast guys will still be fast either way.
 
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