Champ vs. Open Kart - What In The World Happened?

Rocket Rob

New member
I know this most likely has been discussed before but I don't have time to look for it.

My son raced champs on dirt from 1996-2004. We left the sport and am now returning. When we left champ karts was drawing a fair amount in each class and we had a class wherever we went. Before returning I would have bet money that champs would have been the dominant class today and possibly be mandatory at this point (at least in Jr. classes). What happened? :confused: There are very few champs around today and only a few chassis companies listing new champs. I love this sport and have been involved since 1988 (minus the last 9 years while son went in Marines and got a college degree). If I am paying the racing bills we will only race champs. The risk to injury is just too high for us to consider open karts. We live in NW Florida and will be racing with The Florida Champ Kart League. However all the tracks they race are 150-300 miles from home.

My question is WHY? What is the appealing factor of an open kart vs. the safety of a champ, not to mention the great sprint car style of the champ?

>Remember, Regardless of age, use a cage!
 
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First glad you are back to racing karts again. Also welcome to Bob's . I always like the champ karts , seen too many karts flips in accidents and racers getting hurt, to the point of air vac by helicopter. I just can't reason why the champ racing are going away
 
Based on raw observation, champs don't seem to handle as well, are a tick slower, and more prone to flipping due to exposed wheels. That said, I'd race one, and bought a winged outlaw kart for the same reasons you like champ karts.
 
Oddly enough I have seen more kids hurt racing champs han I have flat. Maybe its just been by chance but thats my observation so far. My son has raced flat karts now for the past 5-6 yrs. I think he youngsters feel like just because there's a cage, they can drive wreckless, resulting in flips. The open wheels don't help the situation either! I do agree though. Even in the time we have been involved, the champ numbers have steadily declined
 
Does not seem to be a shortage of them in Virginia. Not sure about injuries, but lots of wrecks with the champs. I don't really care to put my kids in them, but can't blame you if you feel they are safer.
 
ill be the first to say Champs are way safer than an open flat kart if you flip a flat kart theres the possibilty you wont walk away from it the only reason i run flats is because there arent many of them around here anymore and ive been running a winged outlaw kart because of the roll cage in words said id rather have a cage over my head
 
In NC, most tracks still have a healthy number of champs. Series like Tri-State also keep kart counts up fairly high with very competitive champ races. Around here, put up the money and watch the counts rise.
 
Anyone who says one is safer then the other is not educated enough.

Both of them are dangerous. Both of then can hurt you very badly. Don't be fooled into thinking champs are safe.

I think the cost has alot to do with it...they are costing 1000-1500 more then a flat kart
 
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JP hit it, with tires the way they are the flat karts are bad enough cost wise to run competitive throw in the added $1500 bucks just to much especially to run with less competition, also agree with JP if you think champs are safe your fooled, even with a lot less % of entries than open karts I have seen more champ driver get seriously hurt than open kart drivers.
 
I can't stand how people say that this sport is dangerous and that is the reason that they won't run a flat kart. Heck playing any sport can be considered dangerous if you wanted to look at the injuries in any sport. I have been to many races over the past years and would consider karting (flat karts) to be one of the safest sports there is. If you are worried about getting hurt you probably shouldn't be racing anyways. I have seen a few people get hurt, but a lot more people who have been in bad wrecks and walk away just fine. Buy a good helmet and you will be just as safe in a flat kart as in any other sport imo. I like racing in bigger classes and it just always seems that the biggest classes are the clone classes
 
As a racer, I never gave much thought about the safety aspect of a roll cage and 5 point restraint system in a champ kart over a flat kart (guess I thought I was bullet proof.)

Now, as a dad, I have to say I think about safety more today than ever before. I absolutely love the champs, but unfortunately as you've already discovered, champs are few and far between. Our local tracks do not offer champ classes, so we travel 2 hours each way every week to run with a decent car count of champs. To me, it's worth it. Don't get me wrong, I build flat karts, and my boys both race flat karts too, but if we could we'd only race the champs.

Interesting that the "open wheels" are blamed for champs crashing....Anyone remember back before all the full bodies were mounted on flat karts? Wasn't that long ago, really. We ran number panels on the nerf bars. Plenty of exposed wheels back then and I don't remember guys getting on their heads all the time, and certainly not blaming the "open wheels" for it when it did happen. Seems that now that flat karts are enshrouded in a tomb-like cocoon of a body, guys drive them more like bulldozers. Now, I don't blame the drivers, mind you -- it's the flagman's job to stop the rough driving. No different than dirt latemodels, guys are using the noses to their advantage if they can get away with it.

Another thing I like about the champs is that they look like a real racecar, (midget or sprint car.) Flatkarts today resemble more of a bobsled than anything else.
Hey, it's all racing. If we were all running Radio Flyer wagons, I'd still want to be involved. :)


--
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cuts
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
JP hit it, with tires the way they are the flat karts are bad enough cost wise to run competitive throw in the added $1500 bucks just to much especially to run with less competition, also agree with JP if you think champs are safe your fooled, even with a lot less % of entries than open karts I have seen more champ driver get seriously hurt than open kart drivers.

Ken I agree with your statement about champs being just as dangerous as flat cars but the design flaw isn't the cage it's the open wheel front end. Some of the worst looking crashes that I've seen at your track in the last few years have been champ karts barrel rolling and flipping end over end. IMO the majority of the problem is the open wheel/Champ nose vrs a std kart nose. I've seen champ karts loop it and spin into the infield and hit the berm and flip where as a flat kart almost always stays on all fours. As you know at your track bolt on caged karts with the std kart nose run along with the champ carts, now I'm sure they have but I can't recall any of the bolt on cages karts ever flipping in the last couple of years. IMO if someone wants to make the champ somewhat safer change the nose design.
 
I like champs. Yes both kart styles are dangerous but the cage has an extra sense of security. There have been flips and wrecks of both kinds at our track. I race flats and they are just as prone to flipping. I hit a friend who spun in the middle of the corner on the left rear and his kart didn't spin when I hit, it went right over. I'd love to have a champ because the Sr. Drivers (from my view) have a lot more respect on the track and aren't as bad as the Jr. Drivers with touching and beating. So really its not the open wheel design its the drivers. IMO
 
Carlson - I agree and relate with all you said. It was when I put my SON in a champ that the nerves settled and we raced better. And they look so much better. I cant believe all racers would not want to be in one just for the style :)
 
I can't stand how people say that this sport is dangerous and that is the reason that they won't run a flat kart. Heck playing any sport can be considered dangerous if you wanted to look at the injuries in any sport. I have been to many races over the past years and would consider karting (flat karts) to be one of the safest sports there is. If you are worried about getting hurt you probably shouldn't be racing anyways. I have seen a few people get hurt, but a lot more people who have been in bad wrecks and walk away just fine. Buy a good helmet and you will be just as safe in a flat kart as in any other sport imo. I like racing in bigger classes and it just always seems that the biggest classes are the clone classes

It is not that we are looking for an entirely safe sport, we just have to make smart decisions and try to reduce the danger and I think champs do that. I take it you have not got kids racing. When your child races its hard not to consider the champs for your child. That was the turning point for me. With the extra sense of security we became better racers as well.

Thanks everyone for the input. I really do appreciate it.

I thank groups like The Florida Champ Kart League for keeping champs alive. That is all we will race.

"Regardless of age, use a cage!"
 
I, as a father, would feel safer with my son in a champ. I also think they make better drivers. At some tracks, the draft comes into play and you have to pick when to make your moves in order to be in front when it counts. Drivers like Donnie Nall, Mitchell Dowdy, and Jerry Mullis can put on a really good show in these champ races.
 
champs or flat karts... racing is inherently dangerous no matter what (just ask tony stewart). while i think that the open wheel design may be a contributing factor, i don't think that it's all there is to the champ being no better or worse than a flat kart. my flip happened when the kart in front of me blew a motor and he turned down into my lane...i ran up and over his left front......so much for the open wheel versus full body. i think its a presumed safer vehicle and along with the presumption, comes a little more agressive driving style. this is what causes more wrecks than hitting the open wheel.
 
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