Track Tac

Confirm my Suspicion

95 shaw said:
Since no one offered a chemical solution to a chemical problem, can we overcome too much rr traction with a mechanical fix?

Say, a few washers more cross?
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W ith no LTO experience on the dirt, it surprises me that you ask that question. I've never heard of "too much RR bite". How does that happen? What causes it? I'm really surprised that it's even mentioned, let alone a problem. Kind of shows you how dumb I apparently am when it comes to dirt LTO!
 
alvin l nunley said:
W ith no LTO experience on the dirt, it surprises me that you ask that question. I've never heard of "too much RR bite". How does that happen? What causes it? I'm really surprised that it's even mentioned, let alone a problem. Kind of shows you how dumb I apparently am when it comes to dirt LTO!
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Lmao

We have only covered this ground, what, five or six times, in the last 4 years.

Use your database to actually learn something.

There is no way the most loaded tire slips down the straight, as one tire must on a staggered solid drive axle.

Extrapolate from there.


Edit.
In a locked down situation, only the tires connected by the solid axle can absorb the power by binding one tire against the other.
 
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I guess as you said you could add cross and take the chassis off the RR but I still feel that once the tires are over prepped to a certain point in the wrong direction one way or another it’s gonna still lock it down and hinder drivability a ton.
 
OVALTECH1 said:
I guess as you said you could add cross and take the chassis off the RR but I still feel that once the tires are over prepped to a certain point in the wrong direction one way or another it’s gonna still lock it down and hinder drivability a ton.
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Not saying it is the correct band aid for overly band aiding, but , in light of not having the proper band aid, is this a semi viable solution?

Man, can't believe I can stop the bleeding?
Lol
 
95 shaw said:
Lmao

We have only covered this ground, what, five or six times, in the last 4 years.

Use your database to actually learn something.

There is no way the most loaded tire slips down the straight, as one tire must on a staggered solid drive axle.

Extrapolate from there.


Edit.
In a locked down situation, only the tires connected by the solid axle can absorb the power by binding one tire against the other.
Click to expand...
I know, I can be a pain sometimes. lol
 
alvin l nunley said:
I know, I can be a pain sometimes. lol
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Really not much testimony for your database, or spreadsheet which you never fail to promote.
Information us only good if you have the ability to process it.
Kind of akin to an illiterate person demanding I defer to him because he lives in the Library of Congress.

It can only be one way or the other.
 
OVALTECH1 said:
I guess as you said you could add cross and take the chassis off the RR but I still feel that once the tires are over prepped to a certain point in the wrong direction one way or another it’s gonna still lock it down and hinder drivability a ton.
Click to expand...
Maybe simply more air pressure is the answer?

I never, ever said it would be optimal, just making the best of a bad situation with available options. We have already determined less prepped tires would be the correct answer.
 
95 shaw said:
Really not much testimony for your database, or spreadsheet which you never fail to promote.
Information us only good if you have the ability to process it.
Kind of akin to an illiterate person demanding I defer to him because he lives in the Library of Congress.

It can only be one way or the other.
Click to expand...
I'd be surprised if that illiterate person didn't have some compelling arguments for his conclusions. Sometimes it might be hard to tell who's living in the library. Being Illiterate is not proof of stupidity.
 
95 shaw said:
Since no one offered a chemical solution to a chemical problem, can we overcome too much rr traction with a mechanical fix?

Say, a few washers more cross?
Click to expand...
No , but it's more than just to much rr traction, it's to much overall traction, no one offered a chemical solution because there is none, there's only 1 solution and that's a different set of tires.
 
alvin l nunley said:
I'd be surprised if that illiterate person didn't have some compelling arguments for his conclusions. Sometimes it might be hard to tell who's living in the library. Being Illiterate is not proof of stupidity.
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Never said a word about stupidity.
Just about demanding I defer to that person for a particular, unrelated reason.

No real value here for the questions at hand.
Could be seen as making my point.
 
95 shaw said:
Maybe simply more air pressure is the answer?

I never, ever said it would be optimal, just making the best of a bad situation with available options. We have already determined less prepped tires would be the correct answer.
Click to expand...
This is what i was going to reply with after your cross comment. More air was my thoughts if no other sets
 
95 shaw said:
Since no one offered a chemical solution to a chemical problem, can we overcome too much rr traction with a mechanical fix?

Say, a few washers more cross?
Click to expand...

The chemical solution is to let those tires cure out for 2 weeks in the sun and rain.

As for more cross: I think that would produce additional problems, rather than fix the current one.
He is already too soft on his left rear (according to the OP), working the LR even harder with additional cross, although it would take some static weight off of the right rear, would make the car drive harder off of the LR. Now, if it's bad enough, he'll have wheel input to the left due to the push center off - wheels left unloads the right front and left rear, and drives the LF and RR into the track, now putting more weight back on the RR. Ie, not a good fix in my opinion.

Increasing air split and getting the right sides out of the track would be a better solution in my humble opinion.

Oh yea, and more rear stagger helps when it's locked down. So much for theories.
 
95 shaw said:
Maybe simply more air pressure is the answer?

I never, ever said it would be optimal, just making the best of a bad situation with available options. We have already determined less prepped tires would be the correct answer.
Click to expand...
I had considered putting in 10 or 12 lbs just to see what would happen, but i still dont think it wouldve been good.
 
Enlighten me... if "locked down" means "not enough hp to make enough weight transfer to use the grip available, causing a bind," why wouldn't the correct solution be "raise VCg" and go faster? I'll take as much grip as you can give me. There is no such thing as too much grip. Especially on dirt. The more grip I get, the more it acts like asphalt. The more setup should be like asphalt. Yes, no, depends?
 
Ok... in my eyes raising the VCG would put the tire into the track harder compounding the problem. That’s the bad part of this prep game
“ getting it right”. Like I said the only true fix in my eyes is to leave setup untouched and bolt the right tire on it. Anything else is a bandaid at best. I’d sooner be on the ragged edge of loose over the ragged edge of locked down any day. Just my 2 cents.
 
There is no real cure for being locked down other than another set of tires. On dirt there is such thing as too much chemical. If the tires are gripping but too soft for the application no chassis fix will save it.
 
In my experience karts dont push because tires are too soft. The busting loose is definitely a sign of the tires being too soft. Modern day karts rely heavily on RF grip to turn with the higher left and cross, if tires are too hard they will push. Sounds like to me the tires were in fact too soft because of the busting loose situation. In the same context typically when something has no roll its because the tires are not making enough grip, which would also support my first sentence. Im not sure how to answer the chemical part of the question because its too much contradicting information. You had stated you had some rain and the track was softer in return should call for a softer tire.
 
CH3Racing said:
In my experience karts dont push because tires are too soft. The busting loose is definitely a sign of the tires being too soft. Modern day karts rely heavily on RF grip to turn with the higher left and cross, if tires are too hard they will push. Sounds like to me the tires were in fact too soft because of the busting loose situation. In the same context typically when something has no roll its because the tires are not making enough grip, which would also support my first sentence. Im not sure how to answer the chemical part of the question because its too much contradicting information. You had stated you had some rain and the track was softer in return should call for a softer tire.
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Normally the track requires something to duro in the low 40s. If it rains through the week or day of like last week, I have been told to aim for mid 30s. I didnt even think about it and just wiped like I always do, without duroing as they didnt feel that soft.
 
CH3Racing said:
In my experience karts dont push because tires are too soft. The busting loose is definitely a sign of the tires being too soft. Modern day karts rely heavily on RF grip to turn with the higher left and cross, if tires are too hard they will push. Sounds like to me the tires were in fact too soft because of the busting loose situation. In the same context typically when something has no roll its because the tires are not making enough grip, which would also support my first sentence. Im not sure how to answer the chemical part of the question because its too much contradicting information. You had stated you had some rain and the track was softer in return should call for a softer tire.
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing with your assessment, but would like more info on tires not making enough grip being related to no roll speed?
 
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