Crf450 common issues????

motorhead said:
If you were as smart at the track as you are on the internet you would get more respect. For some reason it doesn't transfer to the real world.


Just sayin
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Well I learned allot today. One torque is measured without math, and allot of real smart guys think so.

Interesting place you in your idea of what's real.
 
Taft Racing said:
Well I learned allot today. One torque is measured without math, and allot of real smart guys think so.

Interesting place you in your idea of what's real.
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I have this feeling that you're just trying to put me on, but I'll play your game.

If you torque a bolt with your torque wrench, (I assume you have one) is there some math that you have to do?
 
motorhead said:
If you were as smart at the track as you are on the internet you would get more respect. For some reason it doesn't transfer to the real world.
Just sayin
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If you knew me, you probably wouldn't think I was that smart, and I'm not, I just know a bunch of stuff. "It doesn't transfer to the real world", shows that I'm not very smart, otherwise it might. And the reason I don't go to the track is I can't drive, I'm almost blind, and there's just no way for me to get to the track on my own.
 
motorhead
Its a strain gauge.

Al, what you need to understand is that many of us that see you post the same formula over and over already know it. You seem to think that this formula will solve all our issues.

I realize it may be a little boring for the regulars to see that thing over and over again, but there are a lot of new people here every week, and they haven't seen it over and over. They come here to learn, and I'm here to help them. You might try thinking about the other people on this board!


Do you realize a good engine builder is trying to solve much more complex issues.

Absolutely, and I admire that, I was an engine builder myself.


You can give up torque and make more power btw.

I would love to see how you do that. In fact, would you like to make a wager?

Do you know that you can get torque back with gear ratios. I see you recommend what gear people should run that is flat out wrong.

I would love to see how you do that.

Unless you have an abundance of power you always run well past peak power. BTW, the best average hp is also not the correct answer for the correct gear. I guess I feel that the hp/ torque formula is of no help.

I have no idea what you're trying to tell me here. This last paragraph.
 
Ok girls, you're all pretty in your own way.

The reason the torque was lost at the bottom end, is based on the pipe design. The engine didn't magically lose torque. The pipe wasn't designed to accentuate the torque, so it fell off on the bottom. When it got into the higher rpm range, it picked up because that's where the pipe was designed to work.

Four strokes are also pipe dependant, not as much as a two stroke. But, they rely on pipe design to make the power usable in a designated rpm band. That is why a four stroke can have lots of torque on the bottom, yet still pull way up on top and run really good. The pipes can be designed for more all around power, easier than a two stroke pipe. Depending on if you know what you're doing or not. I admit, I don't know that much about either engine's specific needs, but I know they are dependant on the pipe to make it usable.
 
Al you wrote: “Torque x RPM/5252.1 = HP That's how you calculate horsepower.”

So let’s do the math, and I will try to keep is really simple with easy numbers so it is obvious.

40 ft lbs of torque x 5,000 RPM/5252.1= 38 hp

30 ft lbs of torque x 10,000 RPM/5252.1 = 57 hp

Al you also quoted then wrote:

You can give up torque and make more power btw.

I would love to see how you do that. In fact, would you like to make a wager?

You lost the wager Al. I am just trying to help you understand.
 
alvin l nunley said:
I have this feeling that you're just trying to put me on, but I'll play your game.

If you torque a bolt with your torque wrench, (I assume you have one) is there some math that you have to do?
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Al the guys who designed that torque wrench did they use math to construct it so that it would read a correct measurement? or did they just slap the thing together?

If you buy a tool, whether it be a dyno, strain gauge, a simple bar torque wrench, what ever was math used to construct those tools so they would reasonably record a accurate measurement?

In your math equation you posted a torque value, yet you did not give the method from which you calculated the torque value. It had to come from some where,

Here's my point is this gentleman using Math to calculate torque? Can any method be used to calculate torque without math? Your posts state you don't use math to calculate torque. I disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=theH_sD3DZs
 
Wes Snow said:
Al you wrote: “Torque x RPM/5252.1 = HP That's how you calculate horsepower.”

So let’s do the math, and I will try to keep is really simple with easy numbers so it is obvious.

40 ft lbs of torque x 5,000 RPM/5252.1= 38 hp

30 ft lbs of torque x 10,000 RPM/5252.1 = 57 hp

Al you also quoted then wrote:

You can give up torque and make more power btw.

I would love to see how you do that. In fact, would you like to make a wager?

You lost the wager Al. I am just trying to help you understand.
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hey wes now you have me thinking here and for the life of me i cant figure out how i got myself in this boat. but it just occured to me, lets take a diesel engine (24 valve cummins) for example. how do we calculate the HP value if the engine rpm never reaches or exceeds 5252rpm. because if we look at dyno charts the torque and rpm curves cross at 5252rpm do to the mathematical equation as that is the divisible. but how are the numbers calculated with diesel engines, is it the same. im not being a smartass with this question im genuinely curious.
 
Wes Snow said:
Al you also quoted then wrote:

You can give up torque and make more power btw.

I would love to see how you do that. In fact, would you like to make a wager?

You lost the wager Al. I am just trying to help you understand.
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You're misinterpreting, or misunderstanding, what I said. Or maybe I misinterpreted what the writer was saying? By the way, you might separate those 4 lines in some manner. Maybe highlight the 1st 2 or 3.
 
fastmatt42 said:
Time out.
Back to the case protector. will it still bolt on with a 15T gear. I didn't try, but the gear looks too big.
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A lot of engines with a 15 will not fit with the case saver. My KTM I have to remove the case saver to make a 15 work. Even if you cut it to make the 15 work, it's so thin it won't do anything in the event the chain did come off.
 
alvin l nunley said:
If you knew me, you probably wouldn't think I was that smart, and I'm not, I just know a bunch of stuff. "It doesn't transfer to the real world", shows that I'm not very smart, otherwise it might. And the reason I don't go to the track is I can't drive, I'm almost blind, and there's just no way for me to get to the track on my own.
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My comment was not directed to you.
 
TS Motorsports said:
hey wes now you have me thinking here and for the life of me i cant figure out how i got myself in this boat. but it just occured to me, lets take a diesel engine (24 valve cummins) for example. how do we calculate the HP value if the engine rpm never reaches or exceeds 5252rpm. because if we look at dyno charts the torque and rpm curves cross at 5252rpm do to the mathematical equation as that is the divisible. but how are the numbers calculated with diesel engines, is it the same. im not being a smartass with this question im genuinely curious.
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al maybe you can answer this for me. is the formula thats used to calculate diesel horsepower the same as gasoline engines? i truly dont know.
 
HORSEPOWER VS TORQUE
The difference between torque (work) and horsepower (power) is that horsepower is measured over a period of time, where as torque is a measure of the force an engine produces per revolution. Horsepower is dependent on time, where as torque is independent of time. Though they are fundementally different, horsepower can be calculated if torque is known, and vica versa.

Calculating Torque Using Horsepower: Torque = (Horsepower x 5,252) / RPM

Calculating Horsepower Using Torque: Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5,252

Dynamometers actually measure torque and calculate horsepower using the formula above. Don't get confused by the 5,252, it is a mathematical constant derived from the fact that a 1 foot circle has a circumference of 6.2832 feet. Dividing 33,000 by 6.2832 gives you 5,252, which helps to simplify the equation. This constant is the reason that horsepower and torque always cross paths at 5,252 rpm (irrelevant to diesels, which do not operate at this engine speed).

HORSEPOWER, TORQUE, AND MATHEMATICS
In certain scenarios, horsepower ratings may seem more important than torque and visa versa, but the truth of the matter is that they are mathematically related. To further understand the relationship between horsepower and torque, here's an example.

At time of this publishing, the 6.7L Cummins produces 800 lb-ft of torque at 1,600 rpm. Therefore, horsepower at 1,600 rpm can be calculated.

HP = (torque x rpm)/5,252 = (800 lb-ft x 1,600 rpm)/5,252 = 244 hp @ 1,600 rpm. Looking at the factory torque curve for this engine, the forumla proves to be true.

Now then, if you're lugging that Cummins up a hill at 1,600 rpm and wide open throttle, which is of more interest; that you are making 244 horsepower, or that you making 800 lb-ft of torque. It's quite obvious that horsepower can be misleading under certain circumstances, and thus we conclude why torque is of more interest to diesel pickup owners.
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So to answer your question TS, apparently it doesn't matter it's still measured on the same scale. Only that it will cross paths on the dyno at 5,252. Besides that it doesn't matter.
 
ABR #69 said:
So to answer your question TS, apparently it doesn't matter it's still measured on the same scale. Only that it will cross paths on the dyno at 5,252. Besides that it doesn't matter.
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OK I'm still a little confused but I will read more on it tomorrow. My reasoning is how can the constant be used when no value of the equation crosses the 5252 plane.
 
TS Motorsports said:
OK I'm still a little confused but I will read more on it tomorrow. My reasoning is how can the constant be used when no value of the equation crosses the 5252 plane.
Click to expand...

Dynamometers actually measure torque and calculate horsepower using the formula above. Don't get confused by the 5,252, it is a mathematical constant derived from the fact that a 1 foot circle has a circumference of 6.2832 feet. Dividing 33,000 by 6.2832 gives you 5,252, which helps to simplify the equation. This constant is the reason that horsepower and torque always cross paths at 5,252 rpm (irrelevant to diesels, which do not operate at this engine speed).
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33,000lbs being the weight moved 1' per minute to get 1 hp. Since 1' in a circle is the 6.2832 dividing the two gives 5,252. Since a dyno has to go in a circle, you need that constant of 5,252. So, the constant has to be used to measure them all. Regardless if it never actually reaches 5,252 rpm. Only significance it has with RPM is that HP and Torque will cross at that rpm because that is the constant. The constant is not the RPM, just the measure of a 1' circle it has to travel to make the hp standard. Did that help, or only muddy the waters?
 
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