Cross with cassette

alvin l nunley said:
I've played around this year drawing a kart. All the details are there, as best as I can remember. On the left rear there's a bracket, it's vertical, it's fixed in place. A cassette and bearing, riding on the axle, are bolted to the bracket. The brake caliper also bolts to the bracket, but not to the cassette. If I raise or lower the frame, the axle doesn't move, the bearing cassette doesn't move, (it's holding the bearing and the bearing is riding on the axle) only the frame and the caliper move. In an arc. That's misalignment to me. Not much, but definitely not 0.
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That is not the current design the caliper now bolts too the cassette .
 
Al the design you described which you've been working on is a bad design which is antiquated and out of date with what is already being done today.

Interesting how you again can not see common things done today in racing and are still unwilling to accept.

Why is it you do not have the ability to see and accept new modern oval kart racing concepts even after there explained to you time and time again?

If you did allow yourself to see new things would it lead to a situation where you have nothing to offer?
 
alvin l nunley said:
I've played around this year drawing a kart. All the details are there, as best as I can remember. On the left rear there's a bracket, it's vertical, it's fixed in place. A cassette and bearing, riding on the axle, are bolted to the bracket. The brake caliper also bolts to the bracket, but not to the cassette. If I raise or lower the frame, the axle doesn't move, the bearing cassette doesn't move, (it's holding the bearing and the bearing is riding on the axle) only the frame and the caliper move. In an arc. That's misalignment to me. Not much, but definitely not 0.
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Cool.

But we’re not talking about something you drew. We’re talking about an actually production chassis that we have laid our hands on.
 
JPMKarting said:
Cool.

But we’re not talking about something you drew. We’re talking about an actually production chassis that we have laid our hands on.
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Fact is, I've built quite a few karts in my day. If they don't look like the kart you have today, can you send me a picture. I like to keep up!
 
Mayko shark.jpg
my first effort, 1974, Fuel tank's still on the back of the seat. It was another year before I started making floor tanks. The pipe and header were my design, made by me. At the 1975 Quincy Nationals, in the single-engine classes, there were more Mayko pipes in the top 10 than all other pipes combined. We physically counted them.
 
alvin l nunley said:
View attachment 7264
my first effort, 1974, Fuel tank's still on the back of the seat. It was another year before I started making floor tanks. The pipe and header were my design, made by me. At the 1975 Quincy Nationals, in the single-engine classes, there were more Mayko pipes in the top 10 than all other pipes combined. We physically counted them.
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Cool, my how things have changed, if one were to mount a seat like that now you wouldn't be no where near the top 10.
 
flattop1 said:
Honestly I think it comes down too tolerance . 30 years building water towers , one time an engineer had me check the vertical tolerances , 3 inches in 100 feet . Not hard to make that .
If its .010 and calls for .003 its out of alignment.
If the frame is at a different angle then the axle . Then there would seem to be misalignment .
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The frame is at a different angle related to the axle, but the caliper never moves. Caliper is bolted to the cassette in which the cassette never moves, so caliper and axle never moves, no misalignment. Only thing that happens is the frame rail is lowered.
 
With the assumption that you only move one side up or down there will still be a very small misalignment with the rotor. Even though the newer chassis do bolt the caliper directly to the cassette, when the LR cassette is say raised (assuming LR and RR start at the same vertical alignment) then the caliper and that side of the axle raises. When this happens the bearing must rotate in the cassette to be able to still lineup with the RR which has not changed height. Since the angle of the cassette (and by extension caliper) is dictated by the chassis and moved straight up but the axle now has a slight angle downward toward the RR, the rotor (which has it's angle dictated by the axle) will also be leaning slightly right.
 
RDub3 said:
With the assumption that you only move one side up or down there will still be a very small misalignment with the rotor. Even though the newer chassis do bolt the caliper directly to the cassette, when the LR cassette is say raised (assuming LR and RR start at the same vertical alignment) then the caliper and that side of the axle raises. When this happens the bearing must rotate in the cassette to be able to still lineup with the RR which has not changed height. Since the angle of the cassette (and by extension caliper) is dictated by the chassis and moved straight up but the axle now has a slight angle downward toward the RR, the rotor (which has it's angle dictated by the axle) will also be leaning slightly right.
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You are not raising the cassette. The pills lower, or raise, the frame rail. The bearings in the cassette never change angle just from lowering frame rail. The axle location never changes, therefore caliper and hub never change.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
You are not raising the cassette. The pills lower, or raise, the frame rail. The bearings in the cassette never change angle just from lowering frame rail. The axle location never changes, therefore caliper and hub never change.
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Lowering the frame rail relative to the cassette is no different from raising the cassette relative to the frame, just a different verbage and referencing a different point. Regardless of how you say it, if the dimension from bottom of frame to center of axle on the RR remains the same, and if you increase the dimension (by dropping the frame) from bottom of frame to center of axle on the LR then the axle must be at an angle relative to the frame (or frame is at an angle relative to axle) from left to right. This means there will be a very small and non consequential, but still existent misalignment between the rotor and caliper.
 
RDub3 said:
Lowering the frame rail relative to the cassette is no different from raising the cassette relative to the frame, just a different verbage and referencing a different point. Regardless of how you say it, if the dimension from bottom of frame to center of axle on the RR remains the same, and if you increase the dimension (by dropping the frame) from bottom of frame to center of axle on the LR then the axle must be at an angle relative to the frame (or frame is at an angle relative to axle) from left to right. This means there will be a very small and non consequential, but still existent misalignment between the rotor and caliper.
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Yes axle is at an angle relative to the frame, however the caliper and rotor isnt fixed to the frame, so that dont change.
Set kart on ground, measure ground to axle, then angle of brake rotor. Next unbolt the cassette from frame rail and let it drop. Axle height dont change, and rotor angle dont change, and caliper dont change. Neither does cassette. What changes is frame height.
 
Tibi kart brake, I stand corrected, found this image on the web. Tibi kart. It doesn't have the adjustability of the frame height, but I can see how the cassette and the brake bracket would not move with the frame. Are all karts now like this?
righettie brake.jpg
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
Yes axle is at an angle relative to the frame, however the caliper and rotor isnt fixed to the frame, so that dont change.
Set kart on ground, measure ground to axle, then angle of brake rotor. Next unbolt the cassette from frame rail and let it drop. Axle height dont change, and rotor angle dont change, and caliper dont change. Neither does cassette. What changes is frame height.
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It's pretty simple geometry. Yes the axle will not move relative to the ground; however, since the frame moves and the cassette (and caliper is bolted to cassette) is bolted to the frame then the angle of the cassette and caliper will be ever so slightly off. If the frame is at an angle relative to the ground, then the cassette which is bolted securely to the frame will also be at an angle. So since the axle remains flat relative to the ground and the frame and cassette angle change then they must be out of alignment.
 
JPMKarting said:
https://www.ultramaxracing.com/BODYS-1/KART-ST-RIVAL-SIDE-1.jpg
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Could someone with a Umax Rival pull the mounting bolts out of the right rear cassette and lift the axle straight up 5-6 inches
Make sure cassette lines up with frame
Please report your finding to us - is the rotor still square to the caliper or is there some misalignment
Should also work if you lift left rear cassette up 5-6 inches and look at rotor/caliper alignment

Thank you very much
 
^^^^ Thank You . was going to leave it be . The axle is only square too the frame one time . Any time that relationship changes it is no longer square .
The cassette is square to the frame . It does not float . It may be a small misalignment but its there . If the chain sprocket is misaligned then the rotor has too be as well . Both motor mount and cassette are mounted too the frame .
 
flattop1 said:
^^^^ Thank You . was going to leave it be . The axle is only square too the frame one time . Any time that relationship changes it is no longer square .
The cassette is square to the frame . It does not float . It may be a small misalignment but its there . If the chain sprocket is misaligned then the rotor has too be as well . Both motor mount and cassette are mounted too the frame .
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That is what I was looking for
As cassette moves up or down, caliper stays aligned with cassette not rotor
If only one side of axle moves up or down (which changes cross) misalignment DOES show up
 
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