cylinder finishing sequence

R

Raptorracing

Member
What is your typical cylinder finishing sequence? Ive been running a 400 on sunnen hone and plateau with a 600 ball hone. Im going to try a 280, 400 and finish with the 600 on the next batch to see if i can get my grouping tighter on my dyno numbers. I wanted to pick some brains here and see if im moving in the right direction.

Also what angle am i looking for in my cross hatch? 30 degrees?

thanks for any input
 
I would not prefer the ball hone for plateau work. 400 can quickly erase the 280 scratches. I would go from the 280 right to a light pressure 600 with the Sunnen.
 
When you say grouping tighter , are you saying you want several identical engines to dyno , The power curve closer with less variation ?
You feel the cylinder is giving this difference ?
 
Sundog, ill give that a try and see what happens.
flatop, yes sir. I dont feel like its all attributed to the cylinder finish no, but i do think it plays a part wouldnt you think? I can take 2-3 motors with head and carbs that flow similar and have similar velocity numbers, clearances the same, valves seal properly, everything round and true etc., they have been farther off than i would have thought. The only thing i can guess would be adding the human error factor with my cylinder finishing. Since its a manual mandrel style hone, all my patterns are laid by the speed and motion of my arms, and with the sequence of stones im using to create the finish. I am relatively new to building single cylinder engines, but im going to guess at what ive done so far and seen on the dyno, that there is a certain grain and angle of the hatch that will create the most consistent power. All of this is theory in my head, but being that is an area of a great deal of friction, there has to be an ideal grain and pattern that creates an ideal amount of oil retention and the least amount of friction possible and most power. Again this is just what im thinking, and im open to constructive criticism and/or correction.
 
I dont expect in any way that even with identical parts they will all create exactly the same power, my goal is just to get the variations closer for more consistency is all. And im assuming that an animal engine and a honda engine would demand different finishes based off the differences in the rings, what is your opinions on that?
 
Doesn't really make much difference with the stock Briggs rings. We have tested every possible surface finish and honing process under the sun over many years and after the engine is broke in they all make the same power.

Steve
 
Thanks for the input Steve. This is Ryan Freeman BTW, i'm sure you've gathered that given the name. I can see how that is true with the Briggs. some of them I've worked on, the cylinder was wore to a mirror finish with zero scratches anywhere, except around the bottom of the cylinder, beneath where the rings reached BDC. My brain wants to think that If you start with a coarse grain and lightly overlay with lighter grains,that would allow for better retention, that should help keep them from ending up with smooth bores after X amount of racing, or maybe delay this condition allowing for a longer lasting engine. Am i wrong here, Would this not be the case?
What about the Hondas? They have less power across the board, and thinner rings which produce more heat on its contact points vs the thicker Briggs rings. Is there validity in a multi layer honing pattern for lower power engines like the Hondas? Am I headed in the right direction? I'm not trying to rob anyone of their years of research. My R&D has a very small window, between working 70+ hours a week 1.5 hours away, building other peoples engines in a timely manner, racing with my son, working on his cars, spending time with wife and other child, and other responsibilities. Just looking for a floaty in raging waters. Thanks again for any input, appreciative is an understatement.
 
Raptorracing said:
Thanks for the input Steve. This is Ryan Freeman BTW, i'm sure you've gathered that given the name. I can see how that is true with the Briggs. some of them I've worked on, the cylinder was wore to a mirror finish with zero scratches anywhere, except around the bottom of the cylinder, beneath where the rings reached BDC. My brain wants to think that If you start with a coarse grain and lightly overlay with lighter grains,that would allow for better retention, that should help keep them from ending up with smooth bores after X amount of racing, or maybe delay this condition allowing for a longer lasting engine. Am i wrong here, Would this not be the case?
What about the Hondas? They have less power across the board, and thinner rings which produce more heat on its contact points vs the thicker Briggs rings. Is there validity in a multi layer honing pattern for lower power engines like the Hondas? Am I headed in the right direction? I'm not trying to rob anyone of their years of research. My R&D has a very small window, between working 70+ hours a week 1.5 hours away, building other peoples engines in a timely manner, racing with my son, working on his cars, spending time with wife and other child, and other responsibilities. Just looking for a floaty in raging waters. Thanks again for any input, appreciative is an understatement.
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do you degree your cams? and do you check that they are all the same? that would be the first place i'd look jmho
 
ponytl said:
do you degree your cams? and do you check that they are all the same? that would be the first place i'd look jmho
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Yes I do. But We’re only allowed to run factory supplied cams. However There are small differences between them from what I’ve found, and that’s why I understand they’re not all going to create mirror power through the curve. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, But that’s also where and why my original question comes in. If in others experience, contingent on similar parts and clearances throughout, Is there a sequence they’ve used that’s produced more power and/or more consistency throughout the curves in their engines?
 
Raptorracing said:
Yes I do. But We’re only allowed to run factory supplied cams. However There are small differences between them from what I’ve found, and that’s why I understand they’re not all going to create mirror power through the curve. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, But that’s also where and why my original question comes in. If in others experience, contingent on similar parts and clearances throughout, Is there a sequence they’ve used that’s produced more power and/or more consistency throughout the curves in their engines?
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is this on a clone? if so you know the gear on the crank can be moved to degree advance or retard the cam timing
 
With the chrome compression ring, I've always felt that a course initial finish carried more oil, then just plateau with a much finer grit, rather than small incremental steps. You will not wear this ring in on break-in...all you'll accomplish is to wipe out your pretty cylinder cross hatch if it's too fine.
I doubt you're seeing power differences due to your cylinder finish. Casting differences between heads and carbs, yea, but proper cylinder preparation should be the same from one engine to the next.


-----
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Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
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765-339-4407
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Raptorracing said:
Thanks for the input Steve. This is Ryan Freeman BTW, i'm sure you've gathered that given the name. I can see how that is true with the Briggs. some of them I've worked on, the cylinder was wore to a mirror finish with zero scratches anywhere, except around the bottom of the cylinder, beneath where the rings reached BDC. My brain wants to think that If you start with a coarse grain and lightly overlay with lighter grains,that would allow for better retention, that should help keep them from ending up with smooth bores after X amount of racing, or maybe delay this condition allowing for a longer lasting engine. Am i wrong here, Would this not be the case?
What about the Hondas? They have less power across the board, and thinner rings which produce more heat on its contact points vs the thicker Briggs rings. Is there validity in a multi layer honing pattern for lower power engines like the Hondas? Am I headed in the right direction? I'm not trying to rob anyone of their years of research. My R&D has a very small window, between working 70+ hours a week 1.5 hours away, building other peoples engines in a timely manner, racing with my son, working on his cars, spending time with wife and other child, and other responsibilities. Just looking for a floaty in raging waters. Thanks again for any input, appreciative is an understatement.
Click to expand...
As i said Ryan, finish doesn't matter on the Briggs stuff. Feel free to call me to discuss more.................you already have my cell number.

Steve
Paid B4C Advertiser
 
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