Track Tac

Dry slick

Maybe the difference in opinion is from our perspectives.

Being that I have actually raced with the World of Outlaws print Sprint Series at Volusia several years, and with the AllStars several years before that, I think I "might" know a thing or two about a rubbered up track (including Volusia.)

Brian, when its rubbered up, and no moisture, and slick as glass, its dry slick and they are either so low trying to get the LR in the moisture for bite, or theyre up at the cushion looking for moisture.
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This doesn't even make sense to me , Earl.

Trust me, they're not looking for moisture on a rubbered up track, they're looking to keep that right rear in the rubber. The idea that there might be any moisture at all on a rubbered up track is a bit confusing to me.
What generally happens is that the track starts out pretty decent with a slim cushion that keeps getting moved up to the fence (at Volusia.) As the track slicks off, it'll get slick bottom to top. (That's when you've got guys hunting for "moisture.") Generally the track will be faster against the cushion/fence - but that's a long way around. When the track's slick all the way across and nothing to lean on (cushion) on top, everyone starts running the bottom (shortest way around.) When you start getting all the cars playing huggy pole, single file around the bottom with super soft tires on, the track start to take rubber. In a few more laps, you've got a rubber line where everyone's been running. It'll widen out very little as guys try to make a pass, but it's always faster if you stay in the rubber. That's why you see the leaders really struggle to get past lapped cars who are running in the rubber groove. Lap times get MUCH faster once a track lays rubber as you can get all that power to the ground.
The sand and abrasiveness at Volusia only complicate their track prep. I've seen that place heavy and fast (rarely), slow and "dryslick" (mostly), and rubbered up by qualifying (occasionally.) You can count on at least one of the nights during speedweeks that VCS will kill tires all night long (ie track takes rubber.)
 
Brian, Agree with you on the rubbered up track, I helped a 410 for a few years Attica, freemont, waine,
Me and the driver would argue he say the rubber is slick, Yet come feature time every one go's cushion or low to avoid the rubber,
At least in the turns to free up, Could never understand why every team would lower TP, Rise the wing, put on a 98 LR, move RR in,
wouldnt you want to lossen if the track is biting, Yet thay start with more stager when the track is young and wet go figure ?
Donn
 
No, that isn't correct at all. It doesn't rubber up, then get dry slick -- just the opposite. It gets slick all the way across and guys move down the track and start playing huggy pole -- With all the cars running in one groove, it then lays rubber down in that one groove.
The black shine you see all the way across the track is NOT rubbered up. If it were, then you could run anywhere on the track and be fast. Instead what you see is everyone searching for the thin ribbon of rubber (starting at corner exit) -- whoever finds it first starts picking off cars until everyone else figures it out and then you just fall in line....Like I said, even lapped cars make it difficult for the leaders to get around.

The only way it will take rubber, THEN go dry slick, is if the track crew physically goes out there with a disc and grader to cut the track up and start over (like you mentioned in an earlier post.) If the track takes rubber very early on in the night, (where the WoO officials think it'll make a stink of a follow-the-leader race,) they'll request that the track crew cut the track up and start over. Again, the track only takes rubber AFTER it has gone dry slick, and generally even if they do cut it up it'll rubber up again by feature time because they can't get enough water down in the track to keep it from slicking over and going back to single lane rubber groove by the end of the feature. A few other good examples of this happening are Dixie Speedway (Woodstock), GA), Lakeside, KS (dirt), Pevely, MO (I55) & Fargo, ND. There are others, but these tracks are notorious for rubbering up early on.
 
sure am glad that our tracks around here are dry slick from wore out farm dirt...or ol crawdad mud with a sandy mix...once that sand mix blends some the tracks pick up a bunch on lap times....sometimes leaf blowers hit the top layers of sand and usually see a few tenths just by doing that...with a black prep line laid down about halfway through heat races....Good ol Crawdad dirt.....PC
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
No, that isn't correct at all. It doesn't rubber up, then get dry slick -- just the opposite. It gets slick all the way across and guys move down the track and start playing huggy pole -- With all the cars running in one groove, it then lays rubber down in that one groove.
The black shine you see all the way across the track is NOT rubbered up. If it were, then you could run anywhere on the track and be fast. Instead what you see is everyone searching for the thin ribbon of rubber (starting at corner exit) -- whoever finds it first starts picking off cars until everyone else figures it out and then you just fall in line....Like I said, even lapped cars make it difficult for the leaders to get around.

The only way it will take rubber, THEN go dry slick, is if the track crew physically goes out there with a disc and grader to cut the track up and start over (like you mentioned in an earlier post.) If the track takes rubber very early on in the night, (where the WoO officials think it'll make a stink of a follow-the-leader race,) they'll request that the track crew cut the track up and start over. Again, the track only takes rubber AFTER it has gone dry slick, and generally even if they do cut it up it'll rubber up again by feature time because they can't get enough water down in the track to keep it from slicking over and going back to single lane rubber groove by the end of the feature. A few other good examples of this happening are Dixie Speedway (Woodstock), GA), Lakeside, KS (dirt), Pevely, MO (I55) & Fargo, ND. There are others, but these tracks are notorious for rubbering up early on.
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Now you see, this is a great discussion here. Differing opinions on how things happen.
Im basing my info from Volusia and other places from friends who race WoO, and what they tell me the track is doing, as ive never raced cars there. Both sprint and LM.
 
If a sprint car driver is feathering the throttle, it isn't rubbered up. There are times I've smelt the rubber from the infield before and knew that particular race was over because it was only a matter of a couple of laps and everyone would be in the rubber. At that point it is parade time and you better have gotten all you were gonna get.

Brian - Husets has been terrible for rubber the last couple years. They cut some banking out of it a couple years back and they either flood it or lose the keys to the water truck. Has been a weird track lately.
 
Earl,
Not sure what you think I "see", but I'm telling you the black shine you see across the track is not "rubbered up." :)
Good discussion, yes, but being that I've driven sprint cars at VCS for probably 15 years or more (including before they flip flopped the pavement & dirt tracks around), you're just not going to convince me that any dirt track "rubbers up" THEN goes dry slick. It's ALWAYS the other way around.


fox,
Husets was a fun little track. Very racey - at least when I ran there. It could be heavy early on then develop a big ledge right against the fence, or be slicked off all the way across, but it was great racing either way with lots of slide jobs. Tends to be hard on equipment though. :) It was rare that we ever rolled out of there without a bent ladder, RR wheel, something on the car not quite right by the end of the night. I think more and more promoters' are losing the keys to their water trucks. (kart tracks included) If it costs money and time, they want to cut corners. The problem is, eventually the fans catch on because the racing isn't as good if a track takes rubber. It's also 4 (tires) times as expensive, and the locals that fill the pits every week can't afford enough tires to race there. They'll either go to another track that isn't so hard on tires, or just stay home. Bottom line, the racers lose, the fans lose, and ultimately the promoters lose.
 
Carlson is correct. I've been around late models and modifieds my entire life and I've never seen a track take rubber and the go to a dry slick situation without the track workers going and reworking the track. SoCo you are getting bad information from someone that you are talking to if that's what they are telling you.
 
bigcat6 said:
Tell me what the difference is...if track is dry...what makes it slick...except loose dirt....if dry that would produce a good biteing race track....wet would be somewhat sponge feel to it...with bite from the spongeyness...which as it dries out it becomes tacky and produces more track bite yet.....most tracks have their fastest time when dry slick occurs....wet tracks tend to make karts feel heavy and many tend to lock down....jmo
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We have tracks that are pure red clay. No sand at all. Depending on the time of year it can get hard and glassy/shiney and does not bite up (usually the cooler months it does this). That is very different from a yellow sand based track, or a farm dirt track... and as soco stated the dirts are different in different parts of the country. Up north here our tracks have better bite early in the night and fet slower and slowe as the night goes on (says the stop watch). We go down to tennessee or the carolinas and farther down its completely opposite, and a track typically gets faster and faster.. Hence a carolina dry slick isn't the same as a PA or OH dry slick.

Later

WV Race Fan
 
My sons and I have raced karts, stock cars, and landed in modifieds here in Iowa. IMCA country with those hard Hoosier G 60's! By feature timewe were struggling to keep ours hooked to the track. Big fat Late Model and Sprint Car tires had slicked the track over and black. My vocabulary......dry slick. I'm no guru, never been to Volusia let alone raced there, so I looked for an example of what we experienced.....go to YouTube and look at the Camping World Truck race at Eldora. By th end of the feature those trucks were tiptoeing around the top of a black shiny track making few passes other than the slide job. That is exatly what we experience. So......what would those track conditions be considered?
Scott
 
starts with a little traction AKA Tacky, starts to get "dry slick" in 3 and 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU0oYtyX68s

Dry slick top to bottom. May of started to rubber up when the 777 gets to the outside of the leader but if it did it was a very little amount of rubber in just a few places https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFjskjW2vC4

I cant find a good video of rubbered up, its usually boring and one lane so i would guess no one wants to post those. Once it has rubbered up you have to turn the track over or break it up to get rid of the rubber.

When it gets dry slick the lights start to reflect off the surface and you usually have alot of dust in the air. As it starts to clean up and take rubber the shine will actually go away and it will start to turn back to the color of the dirt and be a dull color. When its rubbered up the lap times rival those of a track with a big fast cushion and it is extremely hard on tires and builds alot of heat.

I know this thread is a couple months old but i was looking for late model preps.
 
A video of a place like Magnolia when theres a lot of cars would most likely be rubbered up. In the late model world when the track gets black and bites up as you kart guys say, that's when our tracks become one lane and follow the leader. I would much much rather see a track go black shiny dry slick, that's when we get to race.
 
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