Box Stock

Engine Prices WOW !!!!!

They were screaming dont touch, but paying anyway. If no one would buy a $900 clone, then $900 clones wouldn't exist. Voting is done with your dollar, not your voice.
 
Up dates

The Kart shops make the rules always have always will and not just in wka, if you don't think so then why are the Clone rules changed every year with up dates, what was wrong with the way they were? Who makes the money from these not the Racer.
 
Made in China. That says it all. My motor builder bought 5 new clones in the beginning of this trend. Put them on the dyno straight out of the box. One was MUCH better than the rest. One of them had the flywheel come apart. Inconsistent China made crap is why the builders had to get involved. We push our equipment to the limits and beyond. To expect something out of the box to perform at the level we demand is not going to happen unless it is made to. This is where the engine builders come in. God bless them. Personally I don't have the time nor desire to do what they do.
 
mikelavite#72 said:
see Al gets it ! we as racers cant blame the engine builders . if you dont want to build your oun engine and they have the "latest & greatest " thing out there yep you guessed it we the racers are buying it . they sqweez out extra hourse power and we sqweez out the extra dollars :)
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The Free Market System is Alive And Well. Price will only bring what the market demands.
 
bwyatt33 said:
Made in China. That says it all. My motor builder bought 5 new clones in the beginning of this trend. Put them on the dyno straight out of the box. One was MUCH better than the rest. One of them had the flywheel come apart. Inconsistent China made crap is why the builders had to get involved. We push our equipment to the limits and beyond. To expect something out of the box to perform at the level we demand is not going to happen unless it is made to. This is where the engine builders come in. God bless them. Personally I don't have the time nor desire to do what they do.
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Raise the minimum wage and see how fast "made in the USA" doubles in price. Price makes it nearly impossible to by USA made sometimes for a budget racer . Aside from the LO206 from Steve Baker above, look at his other prices. Clone is still lowest. Also look at the built flathead prices. For a dying class, it's still more expensive.

And by the way, we do it to ourselves. I used to hand make baseball bats. I would spend days on one bat making it perfect, balanced, beautiful. I had to sell them for $250 bottom dollar to get any profit out of them after all the work I put in them. Now many of the big bat companies are outsourcing part of their operation and selling them for as low as $25 a pop. It was no longer worth my time or effort.
 
PHP 44 said:
The Kart shops make the rules always have always will and not just in wka, if you don't think so then why are the Clone rules changed every year with up dates, what was wrong with the way they were? Who makes the money from these not the Racer.
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You my friend are full of mud!!! I am not a kart shop and I have played an instrumental part in several of the rule changes for the clone mainly to benifit the little guy as in the "DIY'er" Also, you guys that are talking about the kart shops changing the rules, name a rule change that you would like a reason for the change given to you so you don't leave here with the misunderstanding that a specific group of people are making/changing rules to benefit the wallet.
 
supply and demand will always rule what the final costs are going to be on anything. that's why i said that we are our own worst enemies. this is not a knock ont he engine bulders...the more that people want from them, the more it's going to cost. they can't afford to build any engine for $200 and sell it to you for $100.

not to belabor rules, but if the karting community and the kart associations would work together on a concise set of rules that are ameable to everyone, then it would be better for all of us....but wka doesn't want to work with akra who doesn't want to work with --- (name your own organization). and that's not to say that they are being bull headed or stubborn...each has a goal and each wants to reach that goal. sometimes it works for the betterment of all, some times it doesn't. but what i see is a clear road ahead for karting...if we all work together, then we will all benefit....and working together means accepting what the other person or organization has to offer and working toward a compromise and a common goal.

henry ford said: Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success. james cash penny (founder jc penny's) was quoted as saying: Growth is never by mere chance; it is the result of forces working together.

we can grow the karting community and the sport by working together towards one common goal....
 
Rikk said:
I know this is off topic, but I have to say that is really cool. Not to many craftsmen left out there.
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I appreciate that sir, however not enough people appreciated what it took to make one from a price perspective. It's too easy for the big bat companies to use an "assembly style" lathe process that kicks out hundreds of bats in a days work. From their perspective, if you want to swing the same bat that Jeter swings, they have a computer program for that. CNC lathe with a pre-programmed cut and dims, voila!

No 2 of my bats were exactly alike. I would listen to what a client wanted, from balance and weight to grip and knob, and work from there. Sometimes you would go through 2 or 3 billets ($35 each) before the perfect product was made. Once it was made you measured every millimeter on that bat to be able to reproduce that same work for the same client. I would have that client until he found a pro-clone bat that he liked for half the price.

Do some research in Mikuni bats. That guy started similar as me cutting bats in his shed for his son (although I started for myself, I'm still a ball player). He was able to make it into a multi-million dollar enterprise, but one thing is for certain, he doesn't hand cut anything anymore :)
 
Mud

DynoDon said:
You my friend are full of mud!!! I am not a kart shop and I have played an instrumental part in several of the rule changes for the clone mainly to benifit the little guy as in the "DIY'er" Also, you guys that are talking about the kart shops changing the rules, name a rule change that you would like a reason for the change given to you so you don't leave here with the misunderstanding that a specific group of people are making/changing rules to benefit the wallet.
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I may be full of mud but I started Kart racing 1n 1985 . I saw the stock flat head go from turning 53 /55 hundred rpm to 7,000 . Do you think the karter changed the rules over the years to allow them to do this. Who bought 50 stock cams to pick the best one out not Joe blow? Remember pick of the litter cams who sold them not Joe blow . Who changed the rule to have ground cams so they could sell ten of them, and on and on the karter does not get to vote on the rules so if not who makes them. Why do the kart builders change there kart every year or so ? The kart shops sell them so they want this. Who changed the rules on the clone, no one called me and asked if I wanted them changed. What was wrong with the 2011 carb rule why did it change, I have a friend that gets $400,00 to up date a 11 clone why all the up dates (other than the fly wheel) this is how they took a $99,00 motor and made it a $1,000 motor. I have built my own motors from when I started and they have won a lot of races and money so I don't really care
 
We had this discussion some time back and I suggested a spec. motor that the organizing body/bodies would have produced and sell to racers.
Nobody tho't it could be done, yet TKM (I think) has made the same 2-cycle spec motor for 30yrs.
AKRA, WKA, NKA could get together and do the same, if they had the desire.
Build it for ease of maintenance and for durability.
Buy it.
Bolt it on.
Run.
 
One thing I have NEVER been able too figure out...."What came 'first'...the chicken or, the egg?" Demand warrents the supply and one-side is just as 'guilty/responsible' as the other. Racing of any sort never 'stands still' and the original intent too 'race' was too Win! I know I can not build a motor for what I used to charge, and 4me....it's becuz of the thickness of the Rule Book now. But, you take-it, or...leave-it! Racing of some sort will always be!! BTW...anybody UP for 'Real' racing with "Mod's"? (I just finished my first Hemi 'customers-cost' sheet and it's less than 'many' BSP's on the market and it sud be good for 20-22hp too.....hummmm? (Luv the sound of these puppies too)
 
What was wrong with the 2011 carb rule why did it change, I have a friend that gets $400,00 to up date a 11 clone why all the up dates (other than the fly wheel) this is how they took a $99,00 motor and made it a $1,000 motor. I have built my own motors from when I started and they have won a lot of races and money so I don't really care


I need a little more info about what you are asking as per the 2011 carb rule. If your friend is charging 400.00 to rebuild a clone someone is making some pretty darn good money!!!! And if you build your own engines you know that you can purchase a kit engine for 300.00 or less, do some minor blueprinting and cleaning to it, put the correct exhaust on it and you have an engine for approx. 400.00 or less. That is quite a ways from 1000.00. As for the 99 dollar engine everyone seems to forget when they mention that price that there is top plate, chain guard, air cleaner adapter, air cleaner, clamp, fuel line, fuel pump, exhaust pipe, muffler, clamps, bracing, You didn't get all that for 99 dollars.
 
money and politics took over before it ever got started.......destroyed from within.in less than 2 seasons ive seen kart counts go from nothing to a big crowd and back to nothing...what a disappoinment.
 
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