Engine Prices WOW !!!!!

I think some engine builders motors are a little overpriced, but there seems to be no shortage of people willing to pay those prices. Most of the big name builders are savvy businessmen (or they wouldn't big big name builders), they sponsor some of the biggest names in karting, people see those engines, chassis', tire prep...etc, winning on Saturday and come Monday morning their phones are literally ringing off the wall by the average racer wanting a piece of the action. Supply and demand will dictate the engine prices, as long as someone is willing to pay $900.00+ for a clone that they think is the missing piece of their program, they will.
 
I'd say 1/3rd the field at NC/SC tracks.. It all depends where you are located guys..
But in the carolinas if you can win a couple of the big kart count classes on a regular night you can carry home $300-$500 bucks
 
Shift Jimmy at J&M done it right for years, he knew the spec's on the engine, he didnt post them, then someone posted spec's and the engine wars were on.
Keep the predator just like it comes out of the box, and all the internal stuff will be a waste

This is Jimmys plan this year with the predator, no modifications at all allowed except unhook the governor plate on top of the engine, add a weenie pipe, and add a clutch. Top plate and fuel pump are allowed. Engines will be checked and painted as well
 
as with any product that is marketed and sold in the united states, kart engines/products are no different. we are our own worst enemy. an increase in the products worth and your going to pay more. that's the way of business. you can't expect the engine builders to sell you a engine that cost them $300 for $200. as the worth of an item goes up so does the price, expotentially.....trying to reverse the course of time isn't happening any time soon, so we have to live it. doesn't mean that we have to like it.....

supply and demand. we demand more and we are going to pay for it. are the prices getting out of hand? yes. but what are you going to do? stop buying?

just me thinkin!!
 
as with any product that is marketed and sold in the united states, kart engines/products are no different. we are our own worst enemy. an increase in the products worth and your going to pay more. that's the way of business. you can't expect the engine builders to sell you a engine that cost them $300 for $200. as the worth of an item goes up so does the price, expotentially.....trying to reverse the course of time isn't happening any time soon, so we have to live it. doesn't mean that we have to like it.....

supply and demand. we demand more and we are going to pay for it. are the prices getting out of hand? yes. but what are you going to do? stop buying?

just me thinkin!!

Better start buyin up those predators and stackin em in the garage or the basement Mikey, wont be long til everybody gets tired of the clone prices and moves on to the predators and does the same thing with them as they did wiih clones and flatheads. Im thinking about trying to see if i can get a LO206 program started at a couple of local tracks around here and bring back the true stock class racing
 
i hear ya! i just made the decision not to change the rules that we race under. wasn't easy....there was a lot of good things in the proposed rules, but in the end, changing for the sake of changing or changing to accommodate a few just doesn't work. i would much rather lose 4 racers that don't want to change and gain 10 racers that want to race under the current rules. i recently read an article in speedway illustrated that began with keeping things simple and not allowing costs to run the class or ruin it as the case may be. the author spoke of tracks whose management allowed too many changes to take place to benefit a few without thought to the many. tracks like that are now closed. he also explained that bringing back grass roots racing with very strict rules and keeping it low cost will bring out more racers than creating a high dollar class. i hope you succeed!!
 
One thing I think isn't too fair is the fact that the engine builder takes a lot of grief over the costs of these motors when in fact it is us that is causing it. Labor rates really have not changed that much the last couple of years however the time required to build one has gone up considerably. When we pull apart a motor and replace every part we can legally get away with does add a ton of costs to these motors. We are no different than a drug addict or alcoholic trying to get their next fix, we will spend any amount of money to pick up a little more speed to stay competitive.
 
I dont see where 800-1000 is bad at all for a race ready engine with ceramic coated pipe those guys prob have 8 hours in a motor or more with the cleaning, mic-ing, machining etc. Assembly is the quicker part but a whole lot more than assembly goes into one. Not out of line at all in my opinion but i do see a need to limit any further modification so the prices can stay economical
 
A lot of money ( time) is spent on doing things to the engine that aren't allowed and then covering them up. If builders that are charging the ridiculous prices they are wouldn't be doing this kind of thing, the prices wouldn't be as bad. Look at it this way. If a person can purchase a kit engine from who ever for around 300 dollars what all do you think is being done to it that is adding the higher cost? Pipe and exhaust. 100 dollars. Now you are at 400 dollars. You know as well as I do that the so called kit engine you and I would purchase is less than 300 dollars to the big builders. So for poops and giggles lets take it back to 300 dollars with the pipe. Also consider this. Purchasing in large lots gives even a larger price break. So lets take another 100 dollars off that. Now, Big builders have lights, machines, employees, overhead, insurance on building, insurance on employees, maintenance, heat. With that being said, do you feel that it justifies the LARGE prices that are out there? People are creatures of habit. If their competitor has that big dollar engine then they need it also. If they think that just because it was built by a big name karter who won a national championship here and there, then he MUST build the best!!! What is common sense? Common sense is developed not something you are born with.
 
always said that if those who attempt to cheat and cover it up would expend half the energy in racing by the rules, they would be unstoppable!!
 
One thing I think isn't too fair....

The sooner that we as a people start realizing that fair is a relative term the better off we'll be. Nothing in life is fair, and it never will be. No one is owed anything that they didn't do for themselves. If you can't afford to buy a pro built motor, then don't. Lord knows that I refuse to spend money on a pro motor, and then smile under my helmet when I'm passing one with my garage built special :)
 
I find it comical that some of you guys think that engine builders are "cheating" by all the time they put into an engine....the cost of the clone engine comes from time and labor....finding speed and matching parts takes time, along with the proper equipment to do so. I never can understand where it says that racing has to be "affordable". Certain things cost certain money. Some can afford to do it, some cant.

Racing is about winning and being the best. Plain and simple. We race to compete, we compete to win....winning takes an entire package...a driver, kart, tires, engine, etc. The more you dedicate yourself (and your wallet) to aligning all the pieces of the puzzle, the more successful you will be.

I see no problem with a $900 clone engine. When I show up to race, I want the best chance possible. Aligning yourself with the best equipment will give you the best chance, plain and simple
 
If you race on dirt, tires and tire prep cost a lot more than the $950. for a built Clone motor. That's where the real $ are being spent.
 
No one is saying they are rich. But when they get involved in the modification of " box stock " It causes the price to escalate
Only if folks buy what they're selling. :)
IMO, the big deal here is the thousands of folks that aren't jumping on the "Evil Engine Builder" bandwagon. There's your problem, right there.
Good luck trying to do something about it, kinda like complaining about the weather. :)
 
i think that the hayday of karting is still to come, but it's going to take concerted efforts by everyone to bring about changes for the better. no, not outlawing prep, outlawing the "evil engine builder" or any other such unobtainable goals. what is needs is someone to bring something to the table that is both reallistic and potentially possible. you can't walk in and say "make these changes"...it takes more than that. maybe we all need to start over from scratch with the rules, classes and overall karting as it is now. say a moritorium on rules for 12-18 months so that the ground work can be done and a clear "way ahead" is known. too many are wanting things that benefit only them or a select few without regard to what is best for the sport. you can still ahve your high dollar motors and high dollar events, but temper them with a true grassroots racing venue....the problem we all face right now is an overwelming move toward more is better and better costs. WE need to be the ones to reverse this trend....working with the karting oirganizations and the manufacturers so that affordable alternatives can be looked at, so that a true grass roots class can be formed along with a way to progress up to the highest classes where you better have $1000 motors or you aren't even going to able to qualify for the event. too many are shooting for the stars because they are being told that they are the best....and yet, they haven't raced agaisnt the best...ot even close.........i've been around racing since i was about 6 (i'm 57)....i've driven all kinds of racecars at one time or the other (except formula 1, indy and a top fuel funny car or dragster....but the pucker factor in a alcohol funny car is unreal!!!)......now i'm racing a kart....but i couldn't hold a candle to dee paschal or some of the other top wheels.....

think about it...we can make changes for the good....if we would apply ourselves....
 
Do the math.. Start from scratch and purchase everything needed to build engines with just as the top engine builders do. Include insurance, lease or rent on shop, workers comp, energy bill and all the other things you have to carry to run a legite buisness. How much does it cost a month to run that buisness and to do it well? Would like to see some numbers of what everyone thinks it costs. Noone is getting rich off of these engines, Alot of other cost most not looking at.
 
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