Track Tac

Engineering perfection

C

Crc8

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With each passing year i've been noticing the help forums or the normal setup questions are becoming more and more debatable. No certain advise or adjustment is set in stone. High cross, low cross. Your tires need to durometer this/that and so on... In my opinion, all of the advanced engineering that kart manufacturers are using in the design of there chassis's and all the advanced machining the engine builder's use to build there motors and all the chemistry behind the various forms of tire prep have all formed a alliance of near perfection getting the absolute best of their profession. Most every piece and part of a kart is maxed out to it's limits. So i think to myself, why does it seem like most forums never seem to be set in stone, yes or no, always debatable?
The 1 thing left in this world that hasn't been re engineered, technologically advanced to perfection is us, the humans. We cannot be reprogrammed or rebuilt. We are not and will never be perfect. The software being used to engineer frames, the programs being used for engine's and chemistry into the tires do not allow for variances or imperfections. It would simply through off the formula. So based off my opinion on that, we come to the driver. Drivers and their driving style are equivalent to fingerprints. There's no exact match in the world we live in. A lot of similar styles but none the exact. So as each year passes and the machines we race become closer to perfection and spot on, I firmly believe that the technology has gone to the point to where there is no right answer or adjustment because there are no 2 identical styles or fingerprints.
 
My opinion.

There has never been a one size fits all fix to chassis problems.
Period.

As racers become more educated, the understanding is that all adjustments are based on a stack of compromises.
Juggling this because it fits that we did that.
Engineering out this problem will undoubtably lead to another.
Perfection is the carrot on the stick.
It is also an illusion.

As you said, the human element.
Not because the engineering is perfect, but, because humans engineered the program that engineered the finished product.
A single rule change could obsolete current chassis
 
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Hell, the sprint crowd has not yet completely come to grips with the fact that lto chassis work the tires differently.
Perfection?

I think not.
 
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We retired after about 45 years in engineering and we learned one huge lesson: EVERYTHING in engineering is a compromise! You just don't notice it as much if the compromise(s) don't get in the way of your desired end, or don't get in the way much.....

Of course, you are often not lucky in that regard - you usually notice something, and sometimes it's big - we won't bore you with how we know that, lol.
 
Much of the bad or conflicting advice given is due to the questioner giving incomplete information. If you consider yourself enough of an expert to give advice, you should ask more questions before giving your solution.
 
Chipg56 said:
Much of the bad or conflicting advice given is due to the questioner giving incomplete information. If you consider yourself enough of an expert to give advice, you should ask more questions before giving your solution.
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Just maybe the person asking the question is new to the sport and doesn't know all the info that needs to be given. Then on the other hand I've seen questions asked with ample information and either the person replies are so vague or over explained it not funny.
Sometimes it only takes a simple straight forward HONEST answer to get your point across.
You know I was always thought there's no such thing as a stupid question.
 
I've been 20+++ years trying to establish correct theory of how solid axle staggered race cars work and need to be setup so they can be used efficiently on the track. I think I have established some correct and understandable theory to the point where I sometimes hear my original thoughts and words spoken back to me in pits and have been told some of it has been taught in university.

But the quest for how to use what you have to work with in the most efficient way and why you need to do it is never ending. ... :)
 
paulkish said:
I prove your statement wrong every day.
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I'm sure you asked questions when you started that seemed stupid to someone, because there's no way you knew everything you needed to know.
That's one of the ways we learn, asking questions, the other is experience.
 
Engineering and exact science is easier to understand and to convey than the decisions made on race day.
With that said, we use engineering, but the consistent race winner of the GAME we call racing knows from experience how to compromise on the fly to achieve the result,,, winning. Most of the time this is from the SEAT of the race car.

Best, WP
 
paulkish said:
I've been 20+++ years trying to establish correct theory of how solid axle staggered race cars work and need to be setup so they can be used efficiently on the track. I think I have established some correct and understandable theory to the point where I sometimes hear my original thoughts and words spoken back to me in pits and have been told some of it has been taught in university.

But the quest for how to use what you have to work with in the most efficient way and why you need to do it is never ending. ... :)
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Well, in a race car with 2 axles, let's make the inside axle a smaller OD so it'll twist while the out side turns the race car. Or on a live axle unit make the inside half a thinner wall to achieve the same thing.
 
The reason for most debate, and conflicting answers can be as simple as the way one understands the way things work.

I've asked for debaters to give a description of how your kart works the tires on a single lap as this has a lot to do with how you fix problems.

No takers.
 
95 shaw said:
The reason for most debate, and conflicting answers can be as simple as the way one understands the way things work.

I've asked for debaters to give a description of how your kart works the tires on a single lap as this has a lot to do with how you fix problems.

No takers.
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I'm going to give a snobbish answer stating I know how they need to work and have explained it many times on here.

Do you know?

Fixing problems is about being able to see and understand how on track problems relate to tires not working efficiently. What the driver does to use an efficient system on the track is the other side of the coin.
 
paulkish said:
I'm going to give a snobbish answer stating I know how they need to work and have explained it many times on here.

Do you know?

Fixing problems is about being able to see and understand how on track problems relate to tires not working efficiently. What the driver does to use an efficient system on the track is the other side of the coin.
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Knowing how the tires need to work is far different from knowing the chassis adjustments needed to arrive at that situation.

Your next post addresses what, but leaves the other three w's out.
My opinion is the chassis and adjustments control these three.

Since chassis are designed with their own compromises, not counting the compromises made in setup of the chassis, and tires themselves being a compromise, how can there be a set in stone answer to adjustment required?
 
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If that were so, there would be no need for adjustable chassis.

This could lower the costs of the chassis dramatically.
 
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