flywheel key
- Thread starter sammy6y
- Start date
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
I'm pretty sure the thinking is, nobody runs under 32 so why not start there so you don't have to cut the key so much. Still, if you want to run less than 32, you could turn the key around.
I have an Excel spreadsheet that tells you how much to cut the key to achieve the advanced you want. Really simple.
modifiedman
Member
34-36 is all you need.but like Al said start at 32 and see how it goes.you do not say if your running gas or alky that comes into play also.
Millenium22
New member
Yes, do tell...
Get out to the shop, play around with your engines, put them on the dyno and figure it out for yourselves. I have had people tell me more than once that 40* or more is "just too much timing for these engines" and wont work, yet is what made the best power. I race against people using engines from Tod Miller, Renegade, Dover, KSR and others all the time and my little Pro Series from a local builder has no problem running right with them or competing for the win on any given day at the tracks where we race. It works for predators just as well as with clones, simple as that. You dont know until you try it
Jody / ARC Racing
Site Supporter
Zack the quotes like the one above is why so many people that do this for a living are always on your case. So what you are telling a new comer is they can set the timing to fire with the piston half way up the cylinder and it will run better, since you said there is no such thing as too much timing..? Yes you can have too much timing. When you get above 38 or so degrees, with proper carb tuning the engine can make more a little more power in the curve. However you are putting a lot of unneeded stress on the connecting rod. The only rod failures I have witnessed as of late are in engines with 40+ degrees of timing.
Zach your statement is inaccurate, there are very few of these engines that will benefit from timing that high, all stars have to be aligned. You are flirting with failure. anyone with a high flowing, high compression engine may find timing set that high will have problems. Zach do you realize camshaft and events (cam timing) will play an extremely important role here. You switch the crank in your engine and leave 41* and you could have a dog or a disaster.
As far as your statement play around with your engine put it on the dyno, I do have a dyno, I have been through countless hours of testing, I have spent so much time trying different combinations, I have damaged my health sucking the fumes of various styles of engines. There is definitely a point of too much timing, and that point varies with every engine or combination. As a matter of fact 40-41* degrees will work for you as you are not using the full RPM range, I would suggest not idling or lugging the engine around the track under yellow as you are destroying it. That 41* will not work as well on a sprint track.
Use caution when advancing your ignition beyond 36* many times the slight perceived benefit is short lived.
As far as your statement play around with your engine put it on the dyno, I do have a dyno, I have been through countless hours of testing, I have spent so much time trying different combinations, I have damaged my health sucking the fumes of various styles of engines. There is definitely a point of too much timing, and that point varies with every engine or combination. As a matter of fact 40-41* degrees will work for you as you are not using the full RPM range, I would suggest not idling or lugging the engine around the track under yellow as you are destroying it. That 41* will not work as well on a sprint track.
Use caution when advancing your ignition beyond 36* many times the slight perceived benefit is short lived.
Im not saying it will work in every engine guys, just simply saying some engines will make better power across a broader range with more timing, that is all. I guess i could have worded the post a little differently. The engines i have that are using that much timing arent having failures, only had one problem out of one engine and that was due to changing oil brands at the track and not flushing out the engine properly because we were pressed for time, and i paid the price for that mistake. Ended up swapping the rod and crank out for a new one that same night after the races, only setting the rod clearance and timing and went back the next day to a different track to win one feature and 2 2nds in other classes, without ever putting the engine on the dyno or any other tuning... so i do stand behind what i said about SOME engines making better power with more timing.
Again, im not saying this will work for every engine, and im not a professional engine builder at all when it comes to these engines, but i have spent alot of time building my own engines and for others, and on the dyno seeing what works and what does not, that is where my experience comes from. I have had engines that were a dog with anything more than 34* also, to me its all about how the engine is built and set up and how the parts your using work together. Kart43 if what your saying is true, why am i not breaking rods every few races or replacing cranks as often as some change springs? The rod gets changed in my pro clone every 5 races, springs changed every 3 races, rings and valves changed when the leak down shows its time for a rebuild, which is usually after about 15 races. That is just what works for me, and i do the same with the predators. I dont run stock predator classes myself anymore, but i do build the engines for several people who race here in Ky, and they are consistently up front, so i am not seeing a problem with what im doing. There will always be some who disagree, i see alot of that on here, specifically from you Kart43 and a few others, but that doesnt bother me much because im just used to it by now. Im no expert on these engines but im far from a rookie either. Im not sure what you mean by me not using the full rpm range, we run them from an idle up to almost 7000 for the clones, and up to 6200 with the stock class predators, and some of these tracks are known for having alot of cautions, especially in the rookie classes, still am not seeing rods breaking or gualding to the cranks like your suggesting, some of these guys have 30 races or more on their predators with high timing. I am talking about dirt oval or oval racing in general, which is what most people on this site race when it comes to clones or predators, not sprint. I am not the only one this works for, in case you missed the post above from the original poster, who said he has a few engines right now that have 40-42* timing that are his best engines....that is 5 engines in one thread here that are making the best power with that much timing, it doesnt take a genius to see that more than a few are capable of it.
Not saying everyone can just throw 40* or more timing into an engine and go, and expect that engine to run the best, but with the right combination of parts, and tuning the engine on the dyno, it can and DOES work and works well. I agree that the part where i said there is no such thing as too much timing was a bit of an overstatement, you are right there and i apologize, i removed that from the post to not cause more confusion to new folks. But saying 40* is harmful or asking for a failure in every engine just because it doesnt work for you, isnt exactly right either.
Again, im not saying this will work for every engine, and im not a professional engine builder at all when it comes to these engines, but i have spent alot of time building my own engines and for others, and on the dyno seeing what works and what does not, that is where my experience comes from. I have had engines that were a dog with anything more than 34* also, to me its all about how the engine is built and set up and how the parts your using work together. Kart43 if what your saying is true, why am i not breaking rods every few races or replacing cranks as often as some change springs? The rod gets changed in my pro clone every 5 races, springs changed every 3 races, rings and valves changed when the leak down shows its time for a rebuild, which is usually after about 15 races. That is just what works for me, and i do the same with the predators. I dont run stock predator classes myself anymore, but i do build the engines for several people who race here in Ky, and they are consistently up front, so i am not seeing a problem with what im doing. There will always be some who disagree, i see alot of that on here, specifically from you Kart43 and a few others, but that doesnt bother me much because im just used to it by now. Im no expert on these engines but im far from a rookie either. Im not sure what you mean by me not using the full rpm range, we run them from an idle up to almost 7000 for the clones, and up to 6200 with the stock class predators, and some of these tracks are known for having alot of cautions, especially in the rookie classes, still am not seeing rods breaking or gualding to the cranks like your suggesting, some of these guys have 30 races or more on their predators with high timing. I am talking about dirt oval or oval racing in general, which is what most people on this site race when it comes to clones or predators, not sprint. I am not the only one this works for, in case you missed the post above from the original poster, who said he has a few engines right now that have 40-42* timing that are his best engines....that is 5 engines in one thread here that are making the best power with that much timing, it doesnt take a genius to see that more than a few are capable of it.
Not saying everyone can just throw 40* or more timing into an engine and go, and expect that engine to run the best, but with the right combination of parts, and tuning the engine on the dyno, it can and DOES work and works well. I agree that the part where i said there is no such thing as too much timing was a bit of an overstatement, you are right there and i apologize, i removed that from the post to not cause more confusion to new folks. But saying 40* is harmful or asking for a failure in every engine just because it doesnt work for you, isnt exactly right either.
Millenium22
New member
I know enough about them that im not a rookie, just sayin. The dyno does not lie, neither do lap times. This is a discussion forum, things like this is what its for
The 5 engines you speak of are yourself and boomers. Why are you replacing a rod at 5 races and not having to rebuild until 15 races? I am glad you do not get upset when I ask questions. My original posting to you was #7 I asked you to explain your statement "there is no such thing as too much timing," which evidently you know is incorrect as you have removed it from your post. It is not a personal thing, if any member posted information which required further clarification, I would ask. It also appears that several others feel the statement was a stretch on facts.
I replace the rod because as I'm sure you know, it is the weakest link in these engines when it comes to turning them the rpms we do, and it is one of the cheapest parts to replace....only makes sense to change it out for cheap insurance. Come on man, I know your not new to this stuff and this is not new info to you either, why play dumb? And your right I said 5 engines, only 2 belong to me, the other 3 belong to Johnathan, all which to me kinda say your theory isn't exactly right when you say very few engines wont fail with that much timing. To me, very few would be something like 1 out of every 10 engines or something like that.
I dont judge anyone based on how long they have been doing something, I know well enough that people learn at different paces and i respect that. One thing im not understanding is, how the hell does any of this help the original poster when he was asking about flywheel key and what timing most use? I think he got the answers he was looking for and I dont see any use in keeping on and on with this. Send me a private message if you want to continue discussing the issue.
I dont judge anyone based on how long they have been doing something, I know well enough that people learn at different paces and i respect that. One thing im not understanding is, how the hell does any of this help the original poster when he was asking about flywheel key and what timing most use? I think he got the answers he was looking for and I dont see any use in keeping on and on with this. Send me a private message if you want to continue discussing the issue.