Generations of Predators?

I have two predator motors, but sadly no dyno. One motor just "felt" better to me as a guy with absolutely no experience building kart motors. It just felt like the compression was significantly better than my first motor even when it was new. Is there anything to look for when you buy one from the glorious HF or are you just gambling every time? How much variance is there in terms of power to manufacturing quality? I know people who have motors they raced once and were so fast they are saving it for the next big race to use it. I guess one solution is to assemble a collection and give someone with a dyno some money to test them all? Also I was told once that they get faster the more you run them, which personally makes no sense from what I understand about all other engines. I guess I'm just curious about your guys thoughts on the topic. As I'm sure many of you have already found out I spend most of my time on here going down unnecessary rabbit holes lol.
 
You are gambling really. Seems no two are the same. Dont lose sight of the fact that this is the worlds cheapest water pump engine, designed to run at 3650 rpm for 90 days. Then the warranty expires. They will all do that. They all have the same compression on paper. Parts have a lot of varience and the engine builders selling box stock race engines will buy a pile of them, disassemble, and build "race" engines from the best parts.
 
The biggest problem with one engine to the next is the gear on the crank isn’t in the same position as the one next to it. That changes the opening and closing numbers of the valves thus making one a better performance than the other. It can be fixed. The next issue is the head. There is a problem with consistency that I have seen recently. So bad in some that if a tech doesn’t keep up on the knowledge of this engine he would DQ the engine just by sight of the seats.
 
The biggest problem with one engine to the next is the gear on the crank isn’t in the same position as the one next to it. That changes the opening and closing numbers of the valves thus making one a better performance than the other. It can be fixed. The next issue is the head. There is a problem with consistency that I have seen recently. So bad in some that if a tech doesn’t keep up on the knowledge of this engine he would DQ the engine just by sight of the seats.
Interesting, so do I need to try to line up the cam gear with the crank (I assume that's what your referring to)? I was wondering if potentially offsetting it would provide more hp, because it's designed to turn like 3k rpm. I feel like I remember there being holes on the cam and crank that line up, but I may be misremembering.
 
The biggest problem with one engine to the next is the gear on the crank isn’t in the same position as the one next to it. That changes the opening and closing numbers of the valves thus making one a better performance than the other. It can be fixed. The next issue is the head. There is a problem with consistency that I have seen recently. So bad in some that if a tech doesn’t keep up on the knowledge of this engine he would DQ the engine just by sight of the seats.
Is the location of the gear on the crank why some predator motors will turn 5500 rpm's by just adjusting the throttle stop screw, some you need to move the governor spring and some will not turn 5500 on the stand no matter what I try to do? Is the rpm available an indicator of power, or unrelated? How are you suggesting that is fixed? And if I adjust as you are suggesting and I breaking the rules at Selingsgrove and the other local tracks. I picked up a new motor when the were on sale last year that runs great, but I have a collection that are duds.
 
Is the location of the gear on the crank why some predator motors will turn 5500 rpm's by just adjusting the throttle stop screw, some you need to move the governor spring and some will not turn 5500 on the stand no matter what I try to do? Is the rpm available an indicator of power, or unrelated? How are you suggesting that is fixed? And if I adjust as you are suggesting and I breaking the rules at Selingsgrove and the other local tracks. I picked up a new motor when the were on sale last year that runs great, but I have a collection that are duds.
I think he's talking about cam, since that's what opens the valves. You are talking about the governor gear, which is a separate thing. I might be wrong.

A more powerful motor can turn the same rpm on a shorter gear. That is the advantage you can gain in box stock racing.
 
You will need a degree wheel, dial indicator , dial indicator holder , piston stop and a tool designed to move the cam gear on the crank .
along with a few other hand tools
 
Is the location of the gear on the crank why some predator motors will turn 5500 rpm's by just adjusting the throttle stop screw, some you need to move the governor spring and some will not turn 5500 on the stand no matter what I try to do? Is the rpm available an indicator of power, or unrelated? How are you suggesting that is fixed? And if I adjust as you are suggesting and I breaking the rules at Selingsgrove and the other local tracks. I picked up a new motor when the were on sale last year that runs great, but I have a collection that are duds.
There is no way for me to determine if you moved the gear so I can’t call what I can’t see
 
Is the location of the gear on the crank why some predator motors will turn 5500 rpm's by just adjusting the throttle stop screw, some you need to move the governor spring and some will not turn 5500 on the stand no matter what I try to do? Is the rpm available an indicator of power, or unrelated? How are you suggesting that is fixed? And if I adjust as you are suggesting and I breaking the rules at Selingsgrove and the other local tracks. I picked up a new motor when the were on sale last year that runs great, but I have a collection that are duds.
Because the engine is only permitted 5500 I don’t think it has anything to do with the governor. What it does affect is how quick it gets there and how long the power band lasts.
 
You will need a degree wheel, dial indicator , dial indicator holder , piston stop and a tool designed to move the cam gear on the crank .
along with a few other hand tools
Might as well get a clone at that point I guess. Thats the good thing about predator, at least the guy that's cheating to any real advantage is making his motor at least 2-3x more valuable.
 
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I am going to beat a dead horse here. but here goes.
Animal Lo206 does not have any of the problems you are experiencing.
Here is why I am beating a dead horse, I am by nature a very logical person.
Spend $800 for the complete engine,exhaust, clutch. Run the engine for 3 to 5 years with minimum maintenance. Then either convert it to a regular animal, or sell it for about half of what you paid for it. It has an electronic coil that is very consistent on rpm! And actually requires very little maintenance. Truly an engine that you can unbox it , add fuel and oil and race it. Yes you still have to put it on the kart and hook everything up! (sarcasm) Or in the same time frame buy 5 or 6 water pump engines and constantly have to tinker with them just to keep them running competitively. And have them coming out with different parts, constantly that are better than what you bought 6 month ago.
 
^^^ This is all true.
The only thing is the karter/promotor has gone clone/predator .
We bought into the animal deal in the beginning . It was not well accepted then . As it was forced by wka/ikf.
Be it , because briggs was phasing out the flathead or the epa killed it .
Unfortunately , the LO 206 was not available at that time or things may have been different.
 
I am going to beat a dead horse here. but here goes.
Animal Lo206 does not have any of the problems you are experiencing.
Here is why I am beating a dead horse, I am by nature a very logical person.
Spend $800 for the complete engine,exhaust, clutch. Run the engine for 3 to 5 years with minimum maintenance. Then either convert it to a regular animal, or sell it for about half of what you paid for it. It has an electronic coil that is very consistent on rpm! And actually requires very little maintenance. Truly an engine that you can unbox it , add fuel and oil and race it. Yes you still have to put it on the kart and hook everything up! (sarcasm) Or in the same time frame buy 5 or 6 water pump engines and constantly have to tinker with them just to keep them running competitively. And have them coming out with different parts, constantly that are better than what you bought 6 month ago.
Yeah, LO 206 just isn't being raced in East TN as far as I know. I still feel like the biggest class is going to be the cheapest one. I would love for it to be more popular here, because I share your disdain for trying to find speed in motors with huge variations. I guess it would be in a weird space being much more expensive than a predator and only slightly less than a clone, which I assume builders don't want to die.

To be a devil's advocate predator racing does provide a bigger emphasis on roll speed and cuts down on how many tires you need. I'm not familiar with LO206 racing, but predator racing is cheaper than higher hp in more ways than motor alone. I don't feel like cheating is too big of an issue at least in the weekly racing I'm familiar with. I've beat people who I know have aftermarket stuff in their motors, but just like all karts tires are still the most important factor.
 
The 206 has people playing games there as well. Go read some of the previous posts in the 206 forum. Moving the 206 to animal class not as simple as you may think.
 
.
^^^ This is all true.
The only thing is the karter/promotor has gone clone/predator .
We bought into the animal deal in the beginning . It was not well accepted then . As it was forced by wka/ikf.
Be it , because briggs was phasing out the flathead or the epa killed it .
Unfortunately , the LO 206 was not available at that time or things may have been different.
If Briggs would have been smart enough to seize the opportunity when Jimmy Simms walked in there door, things could of been very different.
 
I have no experience with anything else, but what drew me to the predator class was the "limited" changes I could make across the whole kart. In this area the tires are limited to 33's along with the stock motor. The less I needed to learn when coming from no knowledge the better. I will probably move up one day once I get an understanding of kart setup, tire preps, and some driving experience, but all other classes would required a variety of tire compounds along with more engine modification capability in conjunction with everything else. My curve would have been much bigger. Personally I have enjoyed the class, but know it is not for everyone.
 
Surveyor the cruel part of beginner classes like Predators is that it where you need experience in tires and chassis the most. Corner speed wins those races. Always.
 
Surveyor the cruel part of beginner classes like Predators is that it where you need experience in tires and chassis the most. Corner speed wins those races. Always.
Yes , yes , yes, And Chute speed, Or as some call it roll speed. Can help determine your corner speed. Slow in Slow out.
 
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