el tee eff
New member
Anyone tried this? Will it work?
gx 160 head on predator 60363
- Thread starter el tee eff
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el tee eff
New member
I ask this because when you look up the hi comp head it says it's a clone of the honda gx160 head and is offered for the clone or predator-so would it be any different than just using an actuall honda gx160 head? Maybe it's a stupid idea?lol
before i say, i've never tried this combo....but!! the predator block will accept any of the GX series heads....the difference is the roll pins....the ones in the predator are larger and the 196 heads won't slip over them. versus cutting the head, pull the dang pins out and bolt it up...the pins really and honestly are there for some reason, but i see them as nothing more than alignment pins and therefore serve no real purpose...
me? i'd bolt it up, make sure that you don't have any piston/valve or piston/plug interference and go for it!
me? i'd bolt it up, make sure that you don't have any piston/valve or piston/plug interference and go for it!
el tee eff
New member
Thanks mikey, I'm gonna give it a try. I run a rtc4 head on my hemi short block now &it's definatly a runner-thought I'd try this for a spare.
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the info!
I've got a gx 160 head with some 1.2 roller rockers on it. I'm going to give it a try as well. El tee off what cam are you going to use. I've got a .252 lift cam that cam with the gx 160. It has 28-3 etched in it. I have no clue what it is for sure. Ithink it might work well with the bigger engine.
jsut remember that with the higher lift cam, you need to make sure that the valve train is compatible.....like i got blamed for one day, if you go with the bigger cams, then you should look at the shorter pushrods to keep the valve train geometry in line...i like to use the 5.175 push rods...
How long is the stock push rod, and where do you get the shorter ones?
JC Specialty has Comp cut to length push rods. I believe there are others too.
el tee eff
New member
The one I runnow has a mod2 dyno cam and I used the pushrods from the 69730 motor with the head,the hemi pushrods are like 5.5"long and the non hemi pushrods are about 5 1/8"long.
I got a dyno builders prepared cam for this one-both cams aren't a big lift cam, lift but alot of duration. The class I run is a limited mod class,like stock rod,10.8 springs stock appearing etc.
I got a dyno builders prepared cam for this one-both cams aren't a big lift cam, lift but alot of duration. The class I run is a limited mod class,like stock rod,10.8 springs stock appearing etc.
the 14cc head works very well on a predator block, just use stock clone or gx200 pushrods and toss the dowel pins that help align the head with the block, just use the headbolts to help you line it up when you install the head. Some of the genuine honda 14cc heads came with big valves, 27mm intake and 25mm exhaust, i have had a couple of those and they are the ones you want, trust me. Id get the geniune honda head over a clone 14cc head either way. I think the clone 14cc heads came from Champion clone engines if i remember right, and may have champion rocker arm assembly on them. Modifiedman on here used to sell 14cc and 18cc versions of the champion heads and sells the champion rocker arm assemblies with them. The 14cc head will work best if you can port it, they are a little restricted compared to a clone or other predator head, people mainly use them for the smaller combustion chamber and the increase in compression you get from it. I believe the 14cc head unmilled or shaved will give you right around 10:1 compression, which is a good jump from the stock 8.5:1 predators come with. Shave the 14cc head and you can get into the 11:1 range pretty easily. There is a chart online somewhere, i just cant remember where, im thinking it was on NR Racing
sneaks12303
Member
When I built Cloneus Prime , I used the Honda 22cc head with 29mm intake and it is a great fit . The 14cc or 18cc would B the same thing..
sneaks12303
Member
The only difference is the centering pin size and location. The Hemi and 730 R both different....U will need to drill out the Clone or GX Honda heads to accommodate this.
el tee eff
New member
Awesome info guys! Thank you for reassurance. On this idea. It's nice when reputable folks have done it. May be onto another good runner!
i have my notes at home, but i belive the 730 predator is 5.20 and the hemi is like 5.25....i don't have my notes so i could be wrong. i had a head cut down, used the stock pushrods (using the hemi bottom end) and ended up snapping the exhaust stud in my sons and the intake stud in mine from too much lift (356 cam) using the stock length pushrods. went to the 5.175 and cured that issue. now there are two sides to this coin....some will say that they cut the head 5 inches and did this and that and used the stock pushrods with no problems...fine...if they didn't have any issues, that's great! but i shaved my heads and snapped rocker studs...i replaced the pushrods with chrome moly 5.175 and haven't had any issues either and the motors are strong! the 5.175 might not be the best to use in every application....you might need to get a measurement and either have them made for you, the ones that you can cut or buy the adjustable pushrods....all i'm saying is that when you shave the head, go with a higher lift cam or otherwise change the valve train geometry, then you compensate the changes to bring the valve train back into alignment. otherwise, you risk damage to the engine....nothing like snapping a rocker stud when your leading on the white flag lap (son) or snapping the rocker stud on the grid when your leading the points by 2 and need a good strong finish to keep the point lead (me)...
You guys need to check your math on the 14cc head on the Hemi.
Remember static compression is cylinder capacity + combustion chamber(head gasket+chamber+piston dish+ any in the hole), divided by the total combustion chamber cc again. So lets say you've got a 212cc Hemi motor that is .010 in the hole, you throw on an untouched 14cc head and use two .009" head gaskets for a total of 16cc combined combustion chamber. That gives you 212cc +14cc +~3cc(gaskets + in the hole piston), =229cc, now divide by 17cc for......drum roll.....13.47:1 compression!
Remember static compression is cylinder capacity + combustion chamber(head gasket+chamber+piston dish+ any in the hole), divided by the total combustion chamber cc again. So lets say you've got a 212cc Hemi motor that is .010 in the hole, you throw on an untouched 14cc head and use two .009" head gaskets for a total of 16cc combined combustion chamber. That gives you 212cc +14cc +~3cc(gaskets + in the hole piston), =229cc, now divide by 17cc for......drum roll.....13.47:1 compression!
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
close enough for government work. My spreadsheet says the combustion chamber CC's are 16.71 so the compression ratio it calculates is 13.69.
What amazes me is how people, thought to know what they're doing, can come up with numbers so far from this. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe you're missing something or maybe they're missing something. Then again, I'm told I get too technical.
From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
Notice i did say "I believe", not that i was certain exactly what the compression ratio would be. I admit i was also thinking about a 14cc head on a clone engine with a dish piston, not a predator with a flat top and close to zero deck, thats my fault i admit.
It's because they don't add the combustion chamber total CC into the cylinder volume before they divide it by the total chamber CC. And yes there is a big difference there! It's included because when the piston is at bottom dead center, that whole area is filled with air/fuel mix and therefore is included in the static ratio formula.
And I wouldn't be overly scared of 13.5:1 compression on Alky, just don't put gas in it!