Gyroscope Affect

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
The rotation of the wheels on a bicycle or motorcycle create a gyroscopic affect that is evident when cornering.
The wheels wants to keep going straight.
The Same is true on a kart but to a lesser degree because of the smaller wheels and mass.
I'm wondering what affect the mass of the engine flywheel, crank and clutch may have in impeding the karts ability to turn?:confused:
 

BrendanFitz #73

New member
Jim have you been hangin around Paul? Seems like a question only Einstein could answer...

Maybe it does but the crank flywheel and clutches only resistance is air so...
 

ABR #69

Member
Even if you spin a bike tire in the air it has the same effect. But, the smaller circumference makes it easier to change the direction. Unless it's at a much higher rpm. The engine could have an effect because it's so fast. The width of the tire plays a role at lower rpm since it's smaller circumference. So, maybe; maybe not.
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
NO!!!!

My thought is to mount the engine with the crank parallel with the frame not perpendicular to it.
I know this complicates coupling to the rear wheels but that issue can be solved with a differential.
 

Frank Jones

New member
I'm wondering what affect the mass of the engine flywheel, crank and clutch may have in impeding the karts ability to turn?:confused:
I think you are correct. Mostly when you enter a corner it is under braking and the RPMs are lower, you turn, hold that turn to be smooth and accelerate out of the corner. So the gyro effect isn't as noticeable. But when a moderate to high speed corner has a second apex a slight lift helps the kart rotate. You could say that its the weight transfer of the lift, but your idea is good also.
Would the gyro effect explain why some say sacrificing corner entry speed is better as the kart would start the turn in easier at a lower RPM?
 

PD Power

New member
There is significant gyroscopic effect.
In fact, it can be increased, or decreased dependent upon weights, diameters and rpm of various components.
 
How about fitting a PVL 2 stroke ignition with the small internal rotor. We use to put motoplats on old fh briggs opens. Im kind of surprised that no one has done it with GX420 open.
 
Ya, but that flywheel weight no only stores energy to keep away too much of a braking effect when you lift, it also smooths out the power delivery when you jump on the throttle, without it on a big block open your chance of hooking up to the track would be much less. Jon
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
Obviously, the more mass that is rotating is going to create more gyroscopic affect. Bigger flywheel, bigger crank, bigger wheels etc.
Any one know of a small durable differential?
 
I wonder; would rotating the engine 90 degrees make any difference? Maybe in braking, but in turning?

Comments, Complements, Criticisms and Questions are always welcome.
 
But I'm thinking you're wanting to reduce the small amount of friction or resistance you are getting from the gyroscope effect of the engine, by adding a differential that is going to definitely take some power away that would normally go to the wheels. I think having to add a differential onto a vehicle that doesn't normally use one is going to hurt it more than you are trying to help it, in this case at least.
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
I'm not sure a chain and sprocket is any more efficient than a differential. Maybe some one else has that data.
Usually in and open class it isn't HP that wins in fact i'll take a kart that gets through the corners over a little HP any day.
In fact that's true of most kart racing.
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
Can you be more specific about the indy cars?
 

jp81

New member
A friend of mine used to build the East Coast Modified motors (big blocks) that were reverse rotation for the reason you are talking about.
 

crewdaddy

New member
J, you can rotate the motor 90 deg but how does that change the gyroscopic effect? Same resistance to change in direction even though the orientation is changed. As long as you have rotating parts, you will continue to have the phenomena. In the old days when we still had inertial guidance systems (gyro based) in our front line fighters they continued to work flawlessly in any attitude and at any airspeed. jmho
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
I know nothing about jet fighters and their engines.
Do they have flywheels or similar components? Are they turbo jets
If they do isn't their orientation parallel to the direction of travel?
Which way does a fighter jet engine rotate? (from the drivers seat)

jp81 please explain how reversing the motor rotation helps getting through the corners
 

Vmax

New member
The counter rotating engines in SUper Mods were to conteract the TORQUE of the engine not the Gryo effects . The gyro effect remains no matter what orientation the engine is. The same effect and amount is still present in each plain X,Y and Z. In chassis design it may be that LH chassis would have a slight advantage over RH in an oval situation but that is becuase the center of rotional inertia is different.

HUM that is a thought, as every tenth of a sec counts (;-) TP
 
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