has anyone tried running a pair of 125cc sudans

GeorgeHenry said:
Methanol is always use for Jawa 500cc 4 stroke air cooled either the 884 or 889 model laydown motor and the 889 puts 80 hp . then with aftermarket race piston and bore out flat slider carb the numbers will be off the charts. adding F.I. with megaphone unpack closer to 95+HP
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Sorry wrong pic of piston
 
here is the right HP piston for jawa 500cc
 

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Looks like everyone better find their selves a jawa and get a cnc Head and a flat slide carb and some 16-1 pistons,this is gonna be a Jawa spec class from now on. Unless axiro will produce a 75-80cc rotary there is not much else that wiil produce this type of hp and torque. Not enough high proformance parts avialable for the 450s and you got all that trany crap to deal with. The jawa has no tranny perfect for a jackshaft set up. The squre engine raps to 11,000 but the short stroke big bore makes the same hp at 8,500rpm. The only draw back it parts cost very expensive for rebuilds. UAS is going to have to take a lot of weight off the 131,250mx axiros, and 450 x4stroke to help even things. Cant hardly make a 430lb kart much heavier or need a crane at the track to put it on the stand.Then how many guys can make weight on the other karts if they lower tthe weights enough to make things even?( very interesting)
 
Sounds just like the panic the rotary engines made a few yrs. back. Sure makes ya wonder how someone can get a 125 to do so well at the big race last summer in Mo.?
 
ttownwideglider,

The Axiro XR50 (which is generally regarded as being around 294cc) is just about the largest wankel engine allowed under current UAS rules. The difficulty of measuring the cc's of that engine with ordinary common tools and skills caused quite the conundrum for UAS rulemakers in the past, resulting in the current rules on them.
 
At 150# I can make weight on the lower HP engines, but they don't have the TQ needed to not get killed on the starts. At this point, I'd say anything below 400cc 4stroke and 200cc 2 stroke should just be open weight (no basement) to try to keep up. The days of small engines (>125cc) are over, I think, except for the Sportsman class.
 
Jack If you are talking about lasoskies and the GN race there wernt even any karts in the picture except the 450 and the Jawa. The 3place kart was a 131Sudan if that is what your talking about. He wasent enven in the picture when the big four strokes got togather they made him look like a kt100.Well see real soon about panic senaro. This Jawa can produce massive hp and a beautiful flat torque line cant call it much of a curve.Everyone talks about qualifying times being real close, guess you guys have never sandbagged hugh. The only way I can see these jawas being beat is if they have a really terrible set up or the driver stupid and torches his tires early.We willl see soon, I have been wrong a few times in my life, but i dont think so this time. 80-100hp is no joke out of these engines thats twice the difference in what the Wankels were making when they caused a stir. I see a dyno and differnet engines pulled from the top racers to find new cc rules on all the other type engines besides the Jawa maybee larger displacement for the 2smokers . 4stroke technology has gotton so good that the 2-1 ratio of 2smoker to 4strokers is no longer valid. The 4strokes make a lot more torque and hp than they ever have. more like a 325-350cc 2stroke to a 500cc 4stroke would be a better ratio, and the 2smoker still wont have as much torque.
 
The Bigger Picture.

ttownwideglider said:
Jack If you are talking about lasoskies and the GN race there wernt even any karts in the picture except the 450 and the Jawa. The 3place kart was a 131Sudan if that is what your talking about. He wasent enven in the picture when the big four strokes got togather they made him look like a kt100.Well see real soon about panic senaro. This Jawa can produce massive hp and a beautiful flat torque line cant call it much of a curve.Everyone talks about qualifying times being real close, guess you guys have never sandbagged hugh. The only way I can see these jawas being beat is if they have a really terrible set up or the driver stupid and torches his tires early.We willl see soon, I have been wrong a few times in my life, but i dont think so this time. 80-100hp is no joke out of these engines thats twice the difference in what the Wankels were making when they caused a stir. I see a dyno and differnet engines pulled from the top racers to find new cc rules on all the other type engines besides the Jawa maybee larger displacement for the 2smokers . 4stroke technology has gotton so good that the 2-1 ratio of 2smoker to 4strokers is no longer valid. The 4strokes make a lot more torque and hp than they ever have. more like a 325-350cc 2stroke to a 500cc 4stroke would be a better ratio, and the 2smoker still wont have as much torque.
Click to expand...

I think this picture says it all.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwKUnnqU1JY
 
ttownwideglider said:
Jack If you are talking about lasoskies and the GN race there wernt even any karts in the picture except the 450 and the Jawa. The 3place kart was a 131Sudan if that is what your talking about. He wasent enven in the picture when the big four strokes got togather they made him look like a kt100.Well see real soon about panic senaro. This Jawa can produce massive hp and a beautiful flat torque line cant call it much of a curve.Everyone talks about qualifying times being real close, guess you guys have never sandbagged hugh. The only way I can see these jawas being beat is if they have a really terrible set up or the driver stupid and torches his tires early.We willl see soon, I have been wrong a few times in my life, but i dont think so this time. 80-100hp is no joke out of these engines thats twice the difference in what the Wankels were making when they caused a stir. I see a dyno and differnet engines pulled from the top racers to find new cc rules on all the other type engines besides the Jawa maybee larger displacement for the 2smokers . 4stroke technology has gotton so good that the 2-1 ratio of 2smoker to 4strokers is no longer valid. The 4strokes make a lot more torque and hp than they ever have. more like a 325-350cc 2stroke to a 500cc 4stroke would be a better ratio, and the 2smoker still wont have as much torque.
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shhhhhhh If you don't sand bag sometimes rules could be made to hurt the Jawa like what happen to the Wankle when they went out and dominated Qualifiing and ran away in the races causing a commotion.. ;) I think it was well planned for a couple of seasons but that's just me.
 
Yes, I am talking about that race, and my copy of Muscle Kart Magazine shows that a 131 won the race and 2nd. was a 125. 4 out of 6 of the top qualifiers, were Sudams.
 
jack burroughs said:
Yes, I am talking about that race, and my copy of Muscle Kart Magazine shows that a 131 won the race and 2nd. was a 125. 4 out of 6 of the top qualifiers, were Sudams.
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Jack don't let them 2 suck you in. You have a couple guys trying to fuel a argument over the Jawa. Lot's of unfounded speculation 0 fact finding 0 basis for their claims just a couple of instigators
 
GeorgeHenry said:
Methanol is always use for Jawa 500cc 4 stroke air cooled either the 884 or 889 model laydown motor and the 889 puts out 80 hp . then with aftermarket race piston ( pic below) and bore out flat slider carb the numbers will be off the charts. adding F.I. and megaphone unpacked closer to 95 + hp
Click to expand...
Blah blah blah. Then on a properly prepared DIRT track some fhead open mod will clean their plow.
 
Rules can't be changed for 2014 or 2015. Speculation on what is what is a waste of time. The rules are fixed. If you think a Jawa is the way to go, buy one. If the rumors hold true, I will have 3 running in my area next year but I won't be on one. When I'm getting my tail handed to me, I'll change my focus.

PD,
Not if I'm there....

Mike
 
Ha ha read the facts go to the Jawa site an read the specs. in their lowest proformance configuration they will put out 68hp thats their mildest engine. What other engine in UAS will do even that? Mr. Taft I dont take anyones side in anything but my own, Iam a man of pure logic and mechanical aptatude. Thats what i do to make a living,working on aircraft engines. If you and Jack would like to make a little wager just for sh""ts and grins lets go 10$ on the fact that the Jawas will tear up the circuit this year if there is more than 1 or 2 of them., more of a i just proved you wrong thing. I dont care anything about Jawamaster hes nobody to me . I have been doing a lot of investageing and remember the engine from european flat track racing it is bad to the bone. I just never thought of running it on a kart, my stupid. You guys are living in the past and mad becuse you didnt think of it either.The hp to torque curve is a lot a harley almost as much torque as hp, what 2smoke can match that, none. Why do you guys think all the Supercross riders went to 450s they didnt have too it wasnt manditory do ya see any 2 strokes there anymore (humh). This is comming from a guy that loves 2smokers, it just a fact guys. Why are you guys in denial didnt you see that jawa run down everything in its path in just a few laps. I guess iam just seeing things, haluscanting. Mr Taft after your PM I know you think iam a Jawamaster supporter but I dont condone anyone destroying someones equipment in any way. You just rub me the wrong way and I dont care for you attitude, but i already said that in my previous statements. This forum is set up for a exchange of information and that is what we are doing. We will soon see who is right or wrong wont we. The proof is in the puding as the saying goes.Everyone is entilted to their opinion even if its not logical. LOL/ I will be getting me one of those Jawas as soon as i can and you will too when ya get tired of running in the back and sucking dirt. The sportsman class is the only place left for 2smokes to be competative unless UAS gives more cc to the 2 smokers or eliminates the Jawas. According to Mike Grady 2 years of a"" kicking going to happen
 
ttownwideglider said:
Looks like everyone better find their selves a jawa and get a cnc Head and a flat slide carb and some 16-1 pistons,this is gonna be a Jawa spec class from now on. Unless axiro will produce a 75-80cc rotary there is not much else that wiil produce this type of hp and torque. Not enough high proformance parts avialable for the 450s and you got all that trany crap to deal with. The jawa has no tranny perfect for a jackshaft set up. The squre engine raps to 11,000 but the short stroke big bore makes the same hp at 8,500rpm. The only draw back it parts cost very expensive for rebuilds. UAS is going to have to take a lot of weight off the 131,250mx axiros, and 450 x4stroke to help even things. Cant hardly make a 430lb kart much heavier or need a crane at the track to put it on the stand.Then how many guys can make weight on the other karts if they lower tthe weights enough to make things even?( very interesting)
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lets not forget that the 450 engines are allowed to be turboed. 450+methanol injection+turbo= lots of power and torque.
 
I dont know of anyone has even tried to set up a 250 smoker on kill yet. If we can figureout how to get the ppwer down we wont be talking about the jawa.
 
Thats another reason the 2strokes are at a disadvantage they are operated in such a narrow power band, have to be on the pipe to make any hp. Thats why Supercross guys went to the 4stroke it makes torque at low rpms as well as high, has a much larger operating range. Your 250 will make a lot of hp with a turbo but it still gona be real pipey and not make that much torque. There is no way even with a turbo at 25lbs boost that it will make 80-100hp. With the introduction of the Jawa we have a new era. If the Jap 450s had more proformance parts they would be very competative, but they dont. Methanol at 16-1 how is hard to beat.With a turbo also comes extra weight to carry, how heavy can you lift it? I just wish I would have been the one to think of using a Jawa gotta give it Jawamaster he did his homework!
 
ttownwideglider said:
Ha ha read the facts go to the Jawa site an read the specs. in their lowest proformance configuration they will put out 68hp thats their mildest engine. What other engine in UAS will do even that? Mr. Taft I dont take anyones side in anything but my own, Iam a man of pure logic and mechanical aptatude. Thats what i do to make a living,working on aircraft engines. If you and Jack would like to make a little wager just for sh""ts and grins lets go 10$ on the fact that the Jawas will tear up the circuit this year if there is more than 1 or 2 of them., more of a i just proved you wrong thing. I dont care anything about Jawamaster hes nobody to me . I have been doing a lot of investageing and remember the engine from european flat track racing it is bad to the bone. I just never thought of running it on a kart, my stupid. You guys are living in the past and mad becuse you didnt think of it either.The hp to torque curve is a lot a harley almost as much torque as hp, what 2smoke can match that, none. Why do you guys think all the Supercross riders went to 450s they didnt have too it wasnt manditory do ya see any 2 strokes there anymore (humh). This is comming from a guy that loves 2smokers, it just a fact guys. Why are you guys in denial didnt you see that jawa run down everything in its path in just a few laps. I guess iam just seeing things, haluscanting. Mr Taft after your PM I know you think iam a Jawamaster supporter but I dont condone anyone destroying someones equipment in any way. You just rub me the wrong way and I dont care for you attitude, but i already said that in my previous statements. This forum is set up for a exchange of information and that is what we are doing. We will soon see who is right or wrong wont we. The proof is in the puding as the saying goes.Everyone is entilted to their opinion even if its not logical. LOL/ I will be getting me one of those Jawas as soon as i can and you will too when ya get tired of running in the back and sucking dirt. The sportsman class is the only place left for 2smokes to be competative unless UAS gives more cc to the 2 smokers or eliminates the Jawas. According to Mike Grady 2 years of a"" kicking going to happen
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You are entitled to your opinion. and your theory. Thing about theory's they are subject to reality. That and 4 corners LOL. I'm from a Aircraft driven family also. filled with engineers.

Never seen a engine yet that can't be beat. You've made a huge leap into the future taking a series into a Jawa spec class. Your destine to eat lots of crow.

I've driven both the 450's and the 250's. A stock 250 MX engine converted will produce all the HP and torque and modern kart can stand.

Good luck with your theory.
 
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