Box Stock

Here we go again...

Your on the Right trach

Guys you have the right idea but you need to keep in mind the helical gears in these engines make outward thrust on the camshaft. At higher rpms the forces made by these types of gears are more then the sidecovers can hold in . If you remember the flate head engines they where made with spur gears that do not make force. Do a quick search on the web titled (thrust generated by helical gears).
I would cross drill the bolt heads that go in the sidecover and wire tie them (this keeps the bolts from loosening under load and unloading of force on the cam) be sure the bolts are torqued to spect, if you want add some locktite to the bolts before you bolt it all up. I would also try running the engine in a lower rpm range which is where the engine was designed to run.
Try and put some laps on the engine. If this is not the first time this has happened the bosses machined in the cover and the block my have to much slop or movement that is compounding the problem (this makes more force because the camshaft in not rotating in a straight line any more with the crankshft).

I have had this problem myself and I hope this helps you.
;)
 
true! never thought of the gearing angle!! but the advice is still the same. make sure that both mating surfaces or smooth and flat. whether you use bolts or studs, make sure they are clean and dry. locktite, safety wire or just a lock washer....makes no never mind, just do it right! on my motor, only the top two bolts came loose....so although I lost some oil because of this, I didn't have any other issues. take a look at afordablegokarts.com for the sheet on torque values, but side covers (they call it a crankcase cover) are typically torqued to 17 fp (204 inch pounds)....
 
I torqued em just right. My question is how is one to clock them correctly for safety wire when you have no idea how they end up when torqued? I thought of this when I did it first time but just went ahead and did it. Is it trial and error? Or do you go around just a little tighter until you get the hole lined up just right thus adjusting tq value?
 
never gave no mind to clocking the bolts...just torqued em to spec, ran the wire through them and twisted it down and moved on to the next bolt. a lot can be said for clocking the bolts, but...bear in mind, if you over tighten, you risk stripping the bolt or worse snapping it off in the block. by the same token, not torquing to spec or under tightening can have the same effect as not doing anything. best advise i could give to to clean the surfaces and bolts, slap it all together and torque to a known value....then safety wire them together nice and tight. dad always told me that clocking looked nice and purty, but the idea is to keep the bolt from loosening. don't run a long wire twist between the bolts....just enough to prevent the bolt from moving.....might not look purty, but then again, who's gonna be looking to see if you clocked them or not?
 
Yea I did that. Didnt work. I ran one single wire from left side to right side and met and twisted at lower center. Still backed out enough to leak. So Im doing something wrong. And yes everything was spotless and clean before going together. Hell I dont even see the loctite on the bolts when I took em out. In the block threads yes but not bolts.
 
It is not clocking the hole it is clocking the wire. The wire from one bolt head travels to the next in a way that if one bolt attempts to vibrate loose it is actually pulling against it's partner trying to tigthen it. So wire from bolt #1 exits the head so that when it rotates counter clockwise it will be pulling against the next bolt in a clockwise direction. Simple Eh.
 
Here is what I did for mine. I made new dowel pins at 9 and 3 o'clock. Keep the sidecover on the engine and just remove the 9 o'clock bolt first. go to the store and purchase a quality grade allen bolt, lock washer and flat washer. The one I purchased measuring from total length including the head is 1.680. Next you need to purchase a piece of stainless 3/8 tubing. The tubing is just a tad bit tight on the new bolt so I threaded it to the correct metric thread before I cut the piece to length. The bolt will actually screw into the dowel when done. Cut the dowel to a length of .870 or close. Using a 3/8 drill bit mark the bit with a piece of tape or something visible so that you will see a stopping point on the bit. Place the piece of tape or whatever just a tad bit deeper than the .870 on the bit so when you are done drilling the dowel will enter beyond flush with the side cover. It is crucial that you drill as straight as possible so there is no binding of the dowel when you are finished. Place the lock washer followed by the flat washer and then screw the dowel on the bolt. Screw into sidecover and you now have a dowel pin in the block. Do the same to the other side.
 
DynoDon said:
I can't take credit for the idea. When I had my problem I got on Bobs and started to read posts about other guys having the problem and I found a post that described the process of using the stainless steel for a dowel pin. So that idea has to go to someone else but it was a good one.
Click to expand...

That was me I'm pretty sure:)
You can ream drill the bolt holes 3/8" one at a time thru the cover and about 1/8-1/4" into the block while the engine is still assembled, and tap in 3/8 SS tubing from the K&S metals rack and cut it off flush with a dremel and cut-off wheel. I want to say it's .030" wall thickness, I just took a side cover bolt with me and made sure it slipped thru but was tight.
Guys, note those stock side cover bolts are JUNK steel. Clamp one in a vise and see how many ft/lbs it takes to shear the head off of it, then do the same with a good high grade bolt and report back.....
Good bolts, solid dowels, and Loctite, and forget about it.
 
Maybe they are called something different, but we always purchase them from machine shops and they always refer to them as cider or bellow clamps.

They have a dowel insert and a flat flange clamp "grip" which allows you to hold the block side without bearing any weight. They work like a charm and its impossible for them to fall off since they thread through the bolts that are already there.
 
All I do is use fuel line in the side cover holes cut it flush then screw in the bolt
making sure it does not push out the line.most of the time it wont.then
use loc tight.I have also used steel braided line too and works just as good.
have yet had a bolt back out.start the bolt in the cover and bring flush
then install cover to block.I also use high temp copper sealer.
turn 8800 to 9200 have not had one come loose.maybe just
lucky but been doing it this way for a long time.
 
Great Ideas here. John like I said before I tried your way but maybe Im just too dumb to get it to work. Every time I tried putting bolt in side cover it kept sliding fuel line out and splitting it on inside cover side. Couldnt get it right.

Don whenever you get some pics let me know. I think I get what your saying..

Kart43 I see what your saying now. Yea I did that wrong. Looked good though...lol.

Im thinking studs red loctited in block and teflon nuts and lock washers with blue loctite should suffice. With the block cracked on outside Im not even sure if I should proceed with this block. May just get another for this engine and a big bore for my next one.
 
the crack would be a problem. no matter how you bolt the side cover on, that crack is going to be a focus for stress....as cheap as you can pick up a new block, i'd get one, do the work you need to it and go racin.....use the old block as your new boat anchor....jsut my thinkin!!
 
496 BB said:
Great Ideas here. John like I said before I tried your way but maybe Im just too dumb to get it to work. Every time I tried putting bolt in side cover it kept sliding fuel line out and splitting it on inside cover side. Couldnt get it right.

Don whenever you get some pics let me know. I think I get what your saying..

Kart43 I see what your saying now. Yea I did that wrong. Looked good though...lol.

Im thinking studs red loctited in block and teflon nuts and lock washers with blue loctite should suffice. With the block cracked on outside Im not even sure if I should proceed with this block. May just get another for this engine and a big bore for my next one.
Click to expand...

I just learned how to post today so I will take a pic and see if I can do it again
 
100_3689_zps2103d95f.jpg
DynoDon said:
Here is what I did for mine. I made new dowel pins at 9 and 3 o'clock. Keep the sidecover on the engine and just remove the 9 o'clock bolt first. go to the store and purchase a quality grade allen bolt, lock washer and flat washer. The one I purchased measuring from total length including the head is 1.680. Next you need to purchase a piece of stainless 3/8 tubing. The tubing is just a tad bit tight on the new bolt so I threaded it to the correct metric thread before I cut the piece to length. The bolt will actually screw into the dowel when done. Cut the dowel to a length of .870 or close. Using a 3/8 drill bit mark the bit with a piece of tape or something visible so that you will see a stopping point on the bit. Place the piece of tape or whatever just a tad bit deeper than the .870 on the bit so when you are done drilling the dowel will enter beyond flush with the side cover. It is crucial that you drill as straight as possible so there is no binding of the dowel when you are finished. Place the lock washer followed by the flat washer and then screw the dowel on the bolt. Screw into sidecover and you now have a dowel pin in the block. Do the same to the other side.
Click to expand...
Sorry about the blur. Sit back from the computer you will get a better view. lol
 
Just a thought- careful measurement is Crucial here as the bolt being threaded into the "dowel" will bottom on the block, before tightening against the side cover,Giving you the impression it is tight Remember measure twice cut once
 
If you crush the stainless sleeve you will damage the hole and never get it out of the block. why not place a dowel on each side above the bottom holes and leave the bolts and threads alone. You could still use the 3/8 tubing as a hollow dowel in the new holes.
 
You bring up a good point but if measured correctly no axial pressure would be put on the sleeve to "crush,expand or otherwise distort it;If this ever did happen put some heavy grease in the hole and slowly tighten the bolt, the resulting hydraulic pressure would push the sleeve out. This is over-engineering- use studs w/red loctite into block. blue on nuts,tighten properly and if all else is well (ie.) no hi-frequency vibration or mechanical forces Bolts will stay tight
 
I use star washers (like what's used on a flexplate bolt), they lock pretty well. I haven't had any come loose after doing this, I also use red Loctite. On higher HP engines I use studs, but still use the star washers under the nuts. JMO
 
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