Hilliard Flame Clutch Shoe arrangement for yellow slide on a lo206

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Elker66*

New member
Looking for advice on how to setup the shoes on the Hilliard Flame. I'm running inboard with a bully conversion and have it currently setup leading orientation with 2 black and 2 white springs. Someone had suggested to me that I should have 2 leading and 2 trailing shoes. I'm just wondering if anyone may be doing or have tested this and might be able to help me out. Also, it is my second year so if someone has any other useful information they would be willing to share, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your help.
 
Elker66* said:
Looking for advice on how to setup the shoes on the Hilliard Flame. Thanks for your help.
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I can't imagine it making any difference which way the shoes are placed, other than the clutch has to hold the engine at peak torque on the starts, or coming out of a slow corner. Like in Sprint's. If is not doing that, you have less horsepower at the rear wheels, while the clutch is slipping. Once it locks up, there's very little difference. Now if the arrangement of the shoes causes the clutch to slip more on the high-end (very hard to determine) I see no difference.
 
I have never heard of alternating shoe alignment. Never heard of the theory and would likely never try it as any potential gains would be minimal or immeasurable. Stick with leading shoe config. You will want to focus more on springs. If you notice your engine has a bit of low end grunt, as some lo206s do, tune the clutch to engage sooner, otherwise you are missing out on all the wonderful torque. Some people use Hilliard clutch shoe weights to make the clutch engage sooner.
 
Lead the shoes (whether it's inboard or outboard) for an aggressive engagement.
Do not mix leading and trailing shoes -- they should all be going the same direction in my opinion.
Black and white springs will be close. If you're on a technical track with very tight corners, you may want to experiment with the weight kit to tune the clutch to your liking. More weights will lower the engagement rpm some and keep the clutch engaged longer when decelerating.

The shoes are not symmetric, Al -- it makes a huge difference in how they engage.
Trailing is a very gradual engagement, pushing is much harder hitting. The rpm where they chatter engage remains virtually unchanged.


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Al, go on the Hilliard website and look at their shoes. You'll get it immediately.
Clark Gaynor Sr.
 
alvin l nunley said:
Hard for me to understand that term. I understand the pushing part.
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I think Brian's auto correct kicked in. I believe he meant "leading configuration hits harder" The two "leading configuration" and "trailing configuration" result from turning the shoe around.
 
"Pushing" the shoe as opposed to "trailing" the shoe.
The driving dogs pushing the shoes rather than pulling the shoes.
Leading = pushing, Trailing = pulling.

Sometimes I need more coffee before I type, and I use terms that maybe are familiar to my vernacular, but not taking others into consideration. Sorry about that. :)
 
alvin l nunley said:
I understand that part, but "harder bite" "hits harder" is what I don't understand.
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Less slippage up to full engagement. ie, Comes in with a "bang" rather than creeping up to engagement. Somewhat akin to having larger air gap on traditional Bully style disc clutches.
Similarly, you use the phrase "slip the clutch" which is a bit confusing to some of us. :)
 
There is some good info on the Hillard website. I recommend printing the guide and keeping in your trailer. I have a binder that I keep this stuff in. On those of busy days when your rushing around between rounds it's easy to forgot where each washer goes ... It also show trailing vs leading as well as inboard vs outboard mounting.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Similarly, you use the phrase "slip the clutch" which is a bit confusing to some of us. :)
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Perhaps I'm as guilty as anybody when using different terms to describe clutch performance.
Slip; when the engine is turning more RPM than the clutch drum. The internal parts of the clutch are slipping against the drum/discs. Like when you take off from the pits.
Stall; kind of the same thing. When you hold the brakes and rev the engine on the stand. The point at which the engine stops gaining RPM.
Engagement; with a shoe type clutch, that point where the shoes first start contacting the clutch drum.
Full engagement; that point at which the engine and the axle are turning the same RPM, divided by the gear ratio. Not exactly the same but very close.
I sense a lot of confusion about HP at the engine and HP at the axle when the clutch is slipping. I believe it has a lot to do with people's misunderstanding as to what HP actually is. HP is the calculation of how much "work" is being performed in a given amount of time. Wikipedia has some interesting information on that.
 
alvin l nunley said:
I can't imagine it making any difference which way the shoes are placed, other than the clutch has to hold the engine at peak torque on the starts, or coming out of a slow corner. Like in Sprint's. If is not doing that, you have less horsepower at the rear wheels, while the clutch is slipping. Once it locks up, there's very little difference. Now if the arrangement of the shoes causes the clutch to slip more on the high-end (very hard to determine) I see no difference.
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Can't imagine??

FWIW
For those of you that have been lucky enough to grow up in the country and explore nature as a young boy or girl you may know what a tadpole looks like. For those of you that don't know what they look like they have a large head that tapers down to a small tail. Kind of what the shoes in a flame or fire clutch looks like.
So if you put the head of the shoe to your left as you face the engine you will have a smoother engagement and if you do the opposite you often times will have a chatter upon engagement.
Another way to look at it is to put the tail in the clutch in such a way that it is on the trailing side.
 
I run the Flame with the Bully conversion. I want to ask one more time. I run it inboard. Is it correct to have no end play in the clutch when the bolt and washer are tightened up. I don't find much information on this. I have been bolting mine down tight with a hair of end play in the drum.
 
The clutch shaft needs to locked on tight with no play to avoid beating the keyway slot out of the crankshaft. The drum will have play regardless because the sleeve is longer than the bearing. The clutch should hang off the end of the crank ~1/8”
 
No end play on a 206. The clutch should overhang the end of the crankshaft slightly maybe a 1/16. I customers that have had much more overhang and have bulged the race or damaged the bearing after using their impact.
 
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