How can we better karting, and intice new racers to bring back karting?
- Thread starter GooseRacer
- Start date
Burris Racer
Member
I try to make an effort to talk with new racers. There are several new families at my local track. Most are getting into it b/c dad raced a big car and karting is more of a family activity or they just found out about it and wanted to give it a try. I try not to overwhelm people with what it takes to be competitive at some of the larger local events. I don't believe most people getting into karting understand what it takes to run competitive. It's thought of more like a yard cart with a racing body on it. Then as they talk with racers that the track they realize there's a whole lot more to it than meets the eye. They may not know what weight transfer is or what loose and tight are. They probably don't own a durometer, set-up equipment, or multiple sets of tires. Even if you explain it to them, they may walk away with more knowledge than they started with, they still don't know application. They start off just going out and having fun but now when they want to be competitive it's becomes overwhelming in the pocket book and with the lack of knowledge. It doesn't always take money to run competitive but it sure helps to buy a few sets of tires to match track conditions or own your own set-up equipment.
What would I suggest to improve or retain kart count?
As a track promoter I would also try to set-up a display at community fairs, big car tracks, have karts drive in parades. Anything to help promote awareness. Most people I work with or know through other activities didn't even know it existed until they met me.
What would I suggest to improve or retain kart count?
- As much as I don't want to add more classes, I would look to have amatuer and advanced classes in a couple of the weight groups. I would allow the amatuers to run in advanced but not vice versa. There would have to be some kind of rule that advances people out of the amatuer class after a certain point.
- I would look to put on monthly clinics at the track. Topics would include:
- Safety
- Safety equipment such as helmets, jackets, gloves, neck brace, etc. Expiration, proper sizing, etc
- What the flags mean and how to react to events that happen on the track such as hold your brake if you spin instead of coasting down the track
- Kart safety inspection making sure cotters are in place, lead is secured, etc
- Handling
- Terminology & definitions
- Set-up - possibly even offer scale service at the track on this day
- Adjustments - force a certain condition by manipulating air pressure and have drivers go out on the track
- Tires
- Have local tire shops or drivers go over tire profiles, brand characteristics, and thickness
- Resurfacing clinic
- Prep usage & application
- Safety
As a track promoter I would also try to set-up a display at community fairs, big car tracks, have karts drive in parades. Anything to help promote awareness. Most people I work with or know through other activities didn't even know it existed until they met me.
I've been an off and on racer for 62 years. Yes I'm still competitive. We understand karting and racing and see lots of issues. Some of it comes down to available funds as it always was. But as simple as karting seems it can be complicated. It's hard for new people to understand todays chassis and adjustments. Then we move onto the engine. I'm 110% on the 206 platform. However that doesn't cover all of karting as some want to move to other engines or speeds. Tires can be a real killer. Cost and understanding what to do and what they need. for a new person they will have to learn it ALL. They don't understand it's seat time seat time. They need help. Hopefully your not part of a local track that supports the "good old boys group" and anyone trying to get started or comes in from the outside they do everything they can to drive you away and then complain no one shows up. We have had it happen over and over again. When I go the track to practice and see new people I make a point to try to explain that this is not as easy as it looks. Don't give up. You will need that first full year to even start to get the feel of what is going on. For parents that were and are not racers but have kids driving and everyone is new it makes it even harder. The kids don't have the knowledge or experiance to tell you what the probems are they are having and you have no idea what to fix. Again don't get discouraged. It takes time. Do you as an experianced racer explain these things to new people. OR are you the one that tells them nothing and then just goes and beats the crap out of them each week until YOU drive them away. Some tracks are very good and making people get along and others aren't. It's not all about engines, chassis, tires etc. If people are not having fun they won't be there. Todays kids almost have to be forced to do something like this so if they run into a place where it isn't fun DON'T expect them to be around long. They will just go back to the little world of games and phones and shut you out of their world.
Trying to get them to understand they have to wait their turn and it isn't 100% them just running around the track themselves the entire time has been a challenge... RC racing and karts...
ZForceRacing
Member
Most tracks We've raced have a track or class tire.
One thing I do like about prep is the ability to run an older tire.
Racing Psychosis
Member
405 Race entries at New Castle this past weekend for the CKNA 5th Grand Nationals, most they have ever had in Briggs 206's, must be doing something right. Is it the answer, probably for now. How long will it be who knows. I've ran them for quite a few years, and seen them run for quite a few years, they are pretty simple.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
Wonder why karting was at its height was when you had Firestones. Fastest tire was when fresh and prepped, and they raced them 1 time, threw on another set, and did it all over again. New set every time you hit the track, and were always prepped, and had the biggest kart counts karting has ever seen.
Prep and tires arent the issue.
TGRRacing32
Member
I’m all for sealed 206’s
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Like I said previously...the L206 is a great engine....and would lend itself nicely to new racers, but I don't think it's the answer for all racers.
Racers like to tinker. They have historically been shade tree mechanics and DIY'ers. There's just not much for the racer to "tinker" with on the L206, and trust me, I work on them on a daily basis as a builder/tuner.
Sure, the L206 is cost effective and reliable. That's appealing, especially to newbies to our sport. The biggest attraction (I think) of the L206 is that it pretty much takes the engine out of the equation -- that is, it places the emphasis on the chassis, tires, and driver, knowing that everyone is fairly equal on power (no new cams, pipes, performance parts, etc. to update with.) By eliminating the engine as part of the equation folks at least feel like they have a better shot at running well.
On dirt, we all know it comes down to tires and that can be a huge expense and learning curve for most. As much as I hate spec "everything," maybe a spec tire would work for new folks. Again, it's proven itself on pavement. The fast guys will still know how to have an advantage even on the same tire, but the perception would be that at least they are on the same brand, compound, etc. they should be able to compete. Again, I'm not a fan of buying sticker tires at the track, assigned tires, impound areas, etc. but I could support it if we saw car counts increase specifically because of it.
Amateur & Pro classes (however you choose to define those) are not the answer. All that does is nearly double the entries for an even later night...with most promoters now insisting that their money racers enter a second class if they want to compete in the pro class. Even if they didn't, the track time is so valuable that the pros would run other classes anyway.
Yet some tracks are successful despite the odds of a newbie winning their class.
I think it really boils down to who provides the best entertainment value for the racer's investment.
If you're at the track all day and all night just to run a handful of laps in one class, you're probably going to find other things to do with your money and time (weekends and all during the week maintenance.) Consider too, if the track doesn't promote a good, clean, family atmosphere, it'll probably not appeal to too many wives, moms (and dads.) Lose Mom's or Wifey's support, and you've lost a lot!
The classes that I see currently most affected with low car counts are the junior classes (at least at the local Saturday night level.) That's a big concern because there's our future. If we lose this generation of racers, it doesn't bode well 15-20 years from now when their generation should be bringing their kids to the track. What's preventing kids from racing? A lot of distractions. From computers and cell phones to video games to soccer, to getting into bigger cars at earlier and earlier ages. There's no doubt that mechanical skills are declining as GenZ ages. That may pose an even bigger threat when it comes time to have our grocery-getters fixed.
Racers like to tinker. They have historically been shade tree mechanics and DIY'ers. There's just not much for the racer to "tinker" with on the L206, and trust me, I work on them on a daily basis as a builder/tuner.
Sure, the L206 is cost effective and reliable. That's appealing, especially to newbies to our sport. The biggest attraction (I think) of the L206 is that it pretty much takes the engine out of the equation -- that is, it places the emphasis on the chassis, tires, and driver, knowing that everyone is fairly equal on power (no new cams, pipes, performance parts, etc. to update with.) By eliminating the engine as part of the equation folks at least feel like they have a better shot at running well.
On dirt, we all know it comes down to tires and that can be a huge expense and learning curve for most. As much as I hate spec "everything," maybe a spec tire would work for new folks. Again, it's proven itself on pavement. The fast guys will still know how to have an advantage even on the same tire, but the perception would be that at least they are on the same brand, compound, etc. they should be able to compete. Again, I'm not a fan of buying sticker tires at the track, assigned tires, impound areas, etc. but I could support it if we saw car counts increase specifically because of it.
Amateur & Pro classes (however you choose to define those) are not the answer. All that does is nearly double the entries for an even later night...with most promoters now insisting that their money racers enter a second class if they want to compete in the pro class. Even if they didn't, the track time is so valuable that the pros would run other classes anyway.
Yet some tracks are successful despite the odds of a newbie winning their class.
I think it really boils down to who provides the best entertainment value for the racer's investment.
If you're at the track all day and all night just to run a handful of laps in one class, you're probably going to find other things to do with your money and time (weekends and all during the week maintenance.) Consider too, if the track doesn't promote a good, clean, family atmosphere, it'll probably not appeal to too many wives, moms (and dads.) Lose Mom's or Wifey's support, and you've lost a lot!
The classes that I see currently most affected with low car counts are the junior classes (at least at the local Saturday night level.) That's a big concern because there's our future. If we lose this generation of racers, it doesn't bode well 15-20 years from now when their generation should be bringing their kids to the track. What's preventing kids from racing? A lot of distractions. From computers and cell phones to video games to soccer, to getting into bigger cars at earlier and earlier ages. There's no doubt that mechanical skills are declining as GenZ ages. That may pose an even bigger threat when it comes time to have our grocery-getters fixed.
"J'-remy
Member
if you want the sport to grow Amateur is the way to go. there is a huge learning curve to kart racing. it is far better to start out on used equipment with only a couple sets of tires with others in the same boat than to be thrown into a shark tank with sponsored money racers with 24' trailers full of tires and prep knowledge. you are also gonna get more help from people who you are not directly competing with. Predator is a blessing and a curse. It's helping the sport grow but with all the cheating it puts a bad taste in peoples mouth. people get frustrated cry foul, move on and spread the word that karters are a bunch of cheaters.
It would be great to run the sealed clone as anyone who wanted to move up to clone could use the same engine, same set up, same throttle cable length etc etc. when you give up predator your left with a boat anchor.
Two amateur classes is better than running, jr predator, predator champ, predator medium, predator heavy and predator super heavy that's five classes and a huge part of your night and track time.
It would be great to run the sealed clone as anyone who wanted to move up to clone could use the same engine, same set up, same throttle cable length etc etc. when you give up predator your left with a boat anchor.
Two amateur classes is better than running, jr predator, predator champ, predator medium, predator heavy and predator super heavy that's five classes and a huge part of your night and track time.
GooseRacer
Member
I agree with a spec entry class, I agree that l206 would be the best bet for an entry spec, but then people are gonna play the tire game. I like the thought of marking tires at beginning of the night even I feel like that levels the field considerably your not limited to which tire set you choose, just has to be the same all night. No one has really addressed how we put kart racing in front of those people in the general public that may have an interest.. and promote the new easy to get into class to them social media algorithums won't show you karting stuff unless your actively looking for it. YouTube won't stick a kart racing video on your front page even if you spend all day searching and watching nothing but. Ters has to be a way to put it back in the spotlite and make it appealing
Mac_49
Member
Something I think would be a strong contender is this:
LO206 with treaded (non-prepped) tires whether it be Burris or Hoosier. No prepping, cutting, siping, buffing or anything besides sizing.
Yes, we could go in to the "how can you tell if it's prepped or not" ordeal but try to keep that at the back of the table. One great addon is 'the tires you go out to qualify with are the tires you run for the rest of the day'.....no cleaning tires once heats are over which means the dust that is on the tires off the track is the same dust attached to the tires when you go back on.
Junior 206 runs the smaller slides whereas the adults run the black slide....when ready to step up to adult all you're doing is swapping slides.
I can personally vouche that non-prepped treads can be just as fast as, and sometimes faster, than prepped slicks in the same LOW HP classes.
NP treads can also hold the same line as prepped slicks as well. It was done out here at KC Raceway where I begged the owner to let me run my treads with the prepped slicks in the same motor class......first race out I won the field and this 2021 season they have combined the class to an open tire rule because of that.
Same "untouched" motor, same "untouched" tires....go beat someone with skill and not money.
All you can basically do outside of race day is size your tires to what you think is best for the track.
Honesty of tires will always be a problem but I never once broke any rules and came out beating not only my class but another as well.
It can be done legally.
LO206 with treaded (non-prepped) tires whether it be Burris or Hoosier. No prepping, cutting, siping, buffing or anything besides sizing.
Yes, we could go in to the "how can you tell if it's prepped or not" ordeal but try to keep that at the back of the table. One great addon is 'the tires you go out to qualify with are the tires you run for the rest of the day'.....no cleaning tires once heats are over which means the dust that is on the tires off the track is the same dust attached to the tires when you go back on.
Junior 206 runs the smaller slides whereas the adults run the black slide....when ready to step up to adult all you're doing is swapping slides.
I can personally vouche that non-prepped treads can be just as fast as, and sometimes faster, than prepped slicks in the same LOW HP classes.
NP treads can also hold the same line as prepped slicks as well. It was done out here at KC Raceway where I begged the owner to let me run my treads with the prepped slicks in the same motor class......first race out I won the field and this 2021 season they have combined the class to an open tire rule because of that.
Same "untouched" motor, same "untouched" tires....go beat someone with skill and not money.
All you can basically do outside of race day is size your tires to what you think is best for the track.
Honesty of tires will always be a problem but I never once broke any rules and came out beating not only my class but another as well.
It can be done legally.
Too many options out there. Karting has priced itself out of reach for a lot of people. Don't try to eliminate prep, its not going to happen. Limiting the number of sets someone can use and # of classes offered would be good step.
I always enjoyed being able to run different engine arrangements, but having those options may not be best for the sport. The cost of engines and rebuilds were minimal compared to other costs in the long run.
I always enjoyed being able to run different engine arrangements, but having those options may not be best for the sport. The cost of engines and rebuilds were minimal compared to other costs in the long run.
Bob Evans
Administrator
Bingo!
"J'-remy
Member
1 AKRA National clone=1400 or 3 sets of cut Burris on wheels + 1 rebuild per year is a set of 3. 1 NKA National Clone is about the same 3 sets of Burris on wheels +the rebuild set of three
1 L206= 2 sets of tires
1 sealed Box stock @$300
for the price of a national clone and a rebuild I can get a motor and nearly 3 sets of tires. or 2 sets and a couple gallons of prep. I don't get how motors and rebuilds are minimal? you still have 'other costs'
1 L206= 2 sets of tires
1 sealed Box stock @$300
for the price of a national clone and a rebuild I can get a motor and nearly 3 sets of tires. or 2 sets and a couple gallons of prep. I don't get how motors and rebuilds are minimal? you still have 'other costs'
Bob Evans
Administrator
Compared to the cost of running a kart for a full season.
As in- the combined costs of travel expenses, consumables, entry fees, parking fees, chassis parts, broken stuff, etc.
In addition we can't dismiss the "Cool" factor. That being how much folks are willing to spend to find out how they stack up against the best teams out there, or the prize being something so desirable that folks were willing to sacrifice to participate.
In my day that would be something like a "Driller" (Tulsa Shootout), an "Eagle" (WKA National), "Duffy" (IKF), an "I made the show at Daytona" sticker, or making the show at the old "Thanksgiving Thunder".
Sometimes it seems that way too many folks are more interested in slowing the fast guys down instead of putting in the work required to catch up with the fast guys.
My .02
"J'-remy
Member
I can completely understand that you will need to spend some cash, put in the hours and work your butt off to make it to any of the above mentioned venues. However, i think you are missing the point. the conversation here is how do you make the sport grow not how much does it take to be the best of the best.
In all my years of karting i have only known 1 National level driver. he does not pay for motors, chassis, clutches prep or tires. 95% of this sport are regular working class people having fun on a Saturday night.
there is no doubt predator counts are topping the clone counts (because it's less expensive) and the issue of the predator is the lack of a general rule set and the cheating. when and if the predator turns into a $800 blueprinted mess your gonna loose potential newcomers and a drop kart counts. tracks cannot survive on races of 3 karts with 100% payback.
In all my years of karting i have only known 1 National level driver. he does not pay for motors, chassis, clutches prep or tires. 95% of this sport are regular working class people having fun on a Saturday night.
there is no doubt predator counts are topping the clone counts (because it's less expensive) and the issue of the predator is the lack of a general rule set and the cheating. when and if the predator turns into a $800 blueprinted mess your gonna loose potential newcomers and a drop kart counts. tracks cannot survive on races of 3 karts with 100% payback.
Burris Racer
Member
This statement is spot on!
I may not have conveyed my message very well in the post earlier in this thread. What I was trying to get to is folks that get into karting for a short bit and then get out are likely overwhelmed with what it takes to run competitive at local shows in karting hot spots or at larger regional or national events. I believe it would be less overwhelming if a track provides them with an avenue to learn. It will still take time for them to put it into application and make up ground to complete with the front runners. The track will probably lose the folks wanting the instant gratification but may be able to hang on to a few more if they can see a path forward.