How can we better karting, and intice new racers to bring back karting?

SNick75

Member
To many classes, to many engine choices and tires. Its all to confusing for a newcomer. By the time you start to figure things out you then realize that there is no way you can afford to spend the money others do to run up front. For myself the main thing is the tire game is just crazy. I just go with what i have and try to make the best of it and have fun with my son. But thank god for some of the people on this forum that have helped me out and given me advise on gearing and what tires to run at certain track (Even though i cant afford to own multiple sets of the same tire).
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
1 AKRA National clone=1400 or 3 sets of cut Burris on wheels + 1 rebuild per year is a set of 3. 1 NKA National Clone is about the same 3 sets of Burris on wheels +the rebuild set of three
1 L206= 2 sets of tires
1 sealed Box stock @$300
for the price of a national clone and a rebuild I can get a motor and nearly 3 sets of tires. or 2 sets and a couple gallons of prep. I don't get how motors and rebuilds are minimal? you still have 'other costs'
Yea go to, a three day show .
Travel , motel , food and likely a day or two off work .

Even local racing your season total costs for travel and pit passes are big when the entire family is involved .
 

Brettm57

Member
Just throwing this out there as an outsider looking in. It's OK if you tell me I'm full of crap - it won't be the first time!

There's a dirt oval less than 10 miles from my home. The nearest sprint/road racing track is 70 miles away. My son tried the dirt track for a year while I went sprint racing. The following year he sold the dirt kart and both of us went sprint racing for these reasons:

1. One set of spec tires will last almost an entire season, and need no treatment.
2. A sealed engine makes a for level playing field and requires almost no maintenance over the course of a season.
3. "Rubbing is racing" is almost non-existent.
4. No payout whatsoever for any class seems to eliminate most of the bad attitudes among drivers. In fact, I have yet to talk to a driver there that even wants a payout.

I realize that dirt racing is a totally different thing, but I don't see how continuing to do business as usual is going to turn things around. On the other hand, sprint racing is growing in leaps and bounds, thanks mostly to the LO206. What's making sprint racing grow might not work for dirt, but it seems like what is working should at least be looked at and give it some serious thought.
 

1fasttiller

Member
IMO- its directly related to the economy. If we have good leadership, the economy is booming, taxes are low and people are making money they will look for hobbies and spend the cash.

You ruin the economy, horrible leadership, massive tax hikes looming, cost of EVERYTHING is up and hobbies take a back seat. Racing is expensive, it doesn't matter what type it is. Most that get into it know this but many newbies get into kart racing thinking its "play time" and are not even remotely aware of what it takes to keep Jr fast and up front with the state and national level kids.

I've been in and out of this sport since 1993. I've seen new racers come and go, heck this sport almost cost me my marriage back in 08 when my son was born lol. I watch the same exact scenarios play out today as I did back when I was young and broke. 90% of new racers think its all "motor" and to outrun them by a straightaway, you have to be cheating. There is no way its "just tires". Tires are 95% of the problem AND the solution in this sport! If we had some way to EDUCATE the new folks I think we could keep more interest and get kart counts up. I'm upfront with any new racer I help out, its expensive and to be competitive you will need at least "XX" sets of this tire, learn the prep game as well as chassis setup etc.
 

Mac_49

Site Supporter
Is it to far of a stretch to say that dirt racing is for builders while sprint racing is for racers?
Don't take that as an insult as there is stiff competition in racing for sure with dirt, but it seems like dirt is a builders world and that's why the 206 hasn't gained any ground like it has in sprint?
2 different worlds for 2 different 'types' of motorsports genres?
 

nobozos

Member
Dirt guys might be the beer and chip racers while Sprint racing is more the wine and cheese bunch. No matter your flavor racing isn't for everyone and promoters and track owners should remember that. If the long time racers are complaining something is wrong. Granted times change but the word of mouth promotion won't get it done. I've been at it since 1963 and it's not going away any time soon. Karting has had it's ups and downs over the years thankfully it's still going I'm just wanting to see a return of the killer 2cycles I'm done later Chuck.
 

"J'-remy

Member
those killer 2 strokes are why L206 is taking over in sprint karting. the Rotax max is also a spec sealed class @$3400.00 no wonder sprint racing was hurting. makes a clone seem like a bargain
 
Is it to far of a stretch to say that dirt racing is for builders while sprint racing is for racers?
I'd say I know about 100 people that race dirt oval karts. I'd be surprised if 5 of those people assemble their primary engine. Sure, I know people that have one they put together as a project or for a back up engine. So yes, I'd say it is a stretch to say dirt racing is for builders.

A sealed engine may be popular if it replaced the predator class. I'm not sure how it'd go if it's an additional class at a track that already runs predator and clone.
 
Is it to far of a stretch to say that dirt racing is for builders while sprint racing is for racers?
Don't take that as an insult as there is stiff competition in racing for sure with dirt, but it seems like dirt is a builders world and that's why the 206 hasn't gained any ground like it has in sprint?
2 different worlds for 2 different 'types' of motorsports genres?
Sort of. It depends on which sprint racing you are talking about, 2-stroke or 4-stroke. Those are two completely different worlds and levels of money. 4-stroke is dominated by Briggs 206, but a lot of the up front national guys are going through kart frames like they are bags of Doritos. I know of a couple that change out frames about every 3rd race weekend because their claim is that the frames are sprung and basically junk in their opinion and its costing them 3 to 5 tenths per lap. That may just be the frame they chose to run, and the average Joe like myself, probably wouldn't notice it that much. They are big budget guys. And I know a couple that race 2-stroke USPKS that are sponsored drivers, the engine bills on the 2-strokes are nasty.
 

nobozos

Member
Yo J-remy I wasn't talking about that TAG garbage.I'm talking 2cycles the stuff that started the sport (Sport) . Engines that could be 40ty years old and still run today. Pound for pound the fastest and cheapest engines to run over time. Maybe karting should go back like the old days where there were a choice of more engines. But those days most had more hands on. The TAG junk went the way of the Briggs. Here's one for ya Dude how many fathers today would have the nads to pick up junior and kart and run and throw them both down to start a direct drive set up? A lot harder than today just glad I was sitting in the kart and not the starter father(God bless Dad) later Chuck.

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Colt sr

Member
Imo to grow in kart racing let's do a few things. First of all in Jr classes have a rule set for every engine offered. That way when these newcomers buy their first kart "race ready" they are not finding out that kart with a flathead or plated animal can't run at the local track because they own the wrong engine. They need to stop the bs of jr1 clone class then a jr1 predator class so on and so on. Mix them all up and have 1 class for each. This needs to be the same for adult classes as well instead of predator light then clone light. Shoten the nights at the local level. There is no reason that a big car track can be done by 11 pm but we are sitting there on the grid at 3 am. I have seen a amateur class at a local track. They ran gold plate flathead. Once you won 3 races you were to move to the regular classes. The tires are the last of the worries but give racers an option of what tire to run. Don't make it a Burris only track or Hoosier only track. There should be no money races for Jr classes. All tracks should run same rule set for each engine offered. Back in the flathead days you could run anywhere with a wka flathead. If I am wrong then let me be wrong. But that would be a great start.
 

Mac_49

Site Supporter
I'd say I know about 100 people that race dirt oval karts. I'd be surprised if 5 of those people assemble their primary engine. Sure, I know people that have one they put together as a project or for a back up engine. So yes, I'd say it is a stretch to say dirt racing is for builders.

A sealed engine may be popular if it replaced the predator class. I'm not sure how it'd go if it's an additional class at a track that already runs predator and clone.
I have to agree that I can't say I know anyone locally that builds their own and instead pays the builder. Heck even I bought from a builder.
It just blows my mind even more that 206 hasn't taken off then. Is it stubbornness to not accept a new platform that is dominating with your competition (that being dirt vs sprint)....or is it that dirt racing is "planted" so firmly to the ground on clones because "it's what it's always been for the last XX years" and anything new is just shunned automatically?
Dirt racers have seen the HUUUUUUUUUUUGE success and numbers the 206 has brought to the sprint side. As a track promoter (which I'm not lol) why wouldn't you see that and want a part of it? Heck if KC had the 206 class in dirt here I'd be swapping my motor on weekends just to race both sprint and dirt since their race days don't conflict each other lol. Have my beer and chips Saturday night and my cheese and wine on Sunday! 🤣🤣
 

Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
Simple to solve, hard to implement. Junior Novice, Novice, Stock Light, Stock Heavy, Limited Modified, Open / RWYB. Start 5pm, Done 10pm. Practice, 2 Heats, 1 Feature with inverted lineup. No payout. Points and giveaways. Open tire no prep -- take samples and test. Hire AND USE a GOOD tech guy that's neutral. Get rid of all the asinine "fees" and just have a gate fee and an entry fee and concessions to benefit the track.

That would be my recipe. And I'd probably run an asphalt oval too -- rainouts would still happen, but you wouldn't have lost 3 days of track prep in the meantime. Run an EL hardness tire, seal the track so it's slippery --- make 'em drive. Keep it short too -- 1/8 mi. about right, with a 10 second laptime. JMO, of course.
 

jclewis

Member
Simple to solve, hard to implement. Junior Novice, Novice, Stock Light, Stock Heavy, Limited Modified, Open / RWYB. Start 5pm, Done 10pm. Practice, 2 Heats, 1 Feature with inverted lineup. No payout. Points and giveaways. Open tire no prep -- take samples and test. Hire AND USE a GOOD tech guy that's neutral. Get rid of all the asinine "fees" and just have a gate fee and an entry fee and concessions to benefit the track.

That would be my recipe. And I'd probably run an asphalt oval too -- rainouts would still happen, but you wouldn't have lost 3 days of track prep in the meantime. Run an EL hardness tire, seal the track so it's slippery --- make 'em drive. Keep it short too -- 1/8 mi. about right, with a 10 second laptime. JMO, of course.
Promote a race using those exact ideas, & let us know how it goes
 
Hmmm, if I was a prospective new karter, came on here to try and get informed to make a decision before jumping in, read this thread with all this whining about too many classes, engines, tires, prep, how I can’t win against the next guy/gal, I’d decide to do something else
 

SNick75

Member
Hmmm, if I was a prospective new karter, came on here to try and get informed to make a decision before jumping in, read this thread with all this whining about too many classes, engines, tires, prep, how I can’t win against the next guy/gal, I’d decide to do something else
Nobody is whining as you say. Everyone is giving there idea on how they think things should change to bring newer karters into the sport. Good or Bad at least there giving there ideas. More than I can say for some people.
 

nobozos

Member
Maybe someone should check out the national enduro series. They run all
kinds of different karts and engines from vintage to new rigs and get it done in a timely manner. Pittsburgh just had something like 500 karts. later Chuck.
 
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