How to maximize forward drive
- Thread starter PRC27
- Start date
GregMiller04
New member
You won't be able to judge much using tire temps this time of year and these conditions. Very rarely are tire temps accurate on dirt. Ambient temperature attributes to this. Focus on reading tire wear patterns and less on temp.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
Wouldn’t it be more in tune with this sites norm to give your ideas on what to do rather than just downing another person’s idea? Calling others ideas goofy isn’t nice, especially when you present no ideas of your own.
Comments, Compliments, Criticisms and Questions always welcome.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
It would be very interesting to see your data on this subject. Have you taken tire temps thru out the year and arrived at this conclusion? Can we see your data?
Comments, Compliments, Criticisms and Questions always welcome.
Al, not everybody in this world has time to compile their data and make spreadsheets. You are questioning 100's of years of dirt track experience combined on this forum. Where I am located, its freakin cold. Tire temps are more less useless this time of year. I think I speak for the majority of this forum when I say, while I dont hate you for trying to learn, we are very tiresome of your input and comments. You have 0 dirt experience. I can sit here and say, the only way to learn, is by doing. Get a kart, tires, motor, driver... And start learning... I cant prove with data, because I dont have it wrote down... But I have 2 totally different karts in my shop. I go to a 1/4 mile track, 1 kart takes 7/8 rear stagger, the other takes 1 1/4... No spreadsheet can explain it. The karts are just totally different, and require a different amount to rotate. And I have never seen the stagger affect my straigthaway speed. At all!!! In fact, I have won more races on the kart with 1 1/4 rear stagger, on a 1/4 mile track, than I have the other. There are just too many variables in chassis design and setup, to even give a good guess at where to start with a spreadsheet on any given track. The only thing that works, testing and tuning physically. And to question ones caster, or camber, you should know that KPI is different amongst alot of karts. And 10 degree rf spindle, might only require 10 degrees of caster, and a 15 degree spindle, might require 14 degrees of caster. And I know this from my karts. We can all speculate, and calculate... But the fact is, track time and testing with these karts, proves and disproves theorys every day!
Wynn Racing
Member
hotelcalifornia can help you out, he's given me some good info before.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
I’m terribly sorry, I seem to have upset you quite a bit and I apologize. That was never my intent.
There are a few people on here that upset me too. My solution is to just not read their posts. Still, you seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to put me down, seems like a waste of time to me.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
Tire temps on dirt with karting is basically useless.
As for the data, its been done. Can you see it, that i doubt.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
So basically what you're saying is; this useless information is a secret? If I'm taking this wrong, I apologize. In any case, if not secret, what?
BrendanFitz #73
New member
Al the tire temps are always changing with the track conditions on dirt. Yeah they may be relevant to each and every time you go out but after that its useless because the track is most likely never going to be the same.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
Of course they are different every time you go out, I wouldn’t expect anything else. The track changes, the weather changes, the air density changes and, possibly, in between practice sessions, you might have made some setup changes. Any and/or all of these changes can affect your tire temps.
Reading tire temps is an art, not a science. You make a change and read the tire temps. You don’t read the tire temps from the last practice session and then compare them to the previous practice session. What you want to do is, (and this is where the art comes in) compare the tire temps to the lap times. Of course taking into consideration all the previously mentioned changing conditions.
It’s called tuning, and tuning is tough. (Al Nunley)
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.
Art and not a science? I need statistical data in order to prove this. Do you have any statistical data to prove that your theory of reading tire temps as being an art instead of science?
This is like what many have told you about being able to read a track and change tires to accomodate the track. You have tried to argue this same point of "needing statistical data" to read into reasoning of using different tires at races and to also argue as to why one would use a smaller or larger front gear at different tracks when they still create the same ratio.
I need evidence to validate your above statements though Al. Lol just giving you a hard time
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
I never said it was a secret. Just have to know people.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
Al, what you dont realize is that tuning todays dirt kart is done thru tires. Once you find that spot in the set up, any adjustments after that are all in tires....internal, and external prep and the amounts.
Ill add that a camber adjustment may be needed at track, and cross change as well, BUT minor ones.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
As I sit here, waiting for my blood pressure to go down, and wiping up the spilled coffee, I’m thinking; I appreciate your humor. You had me going for a bit. And well written too boot. I’m always envious of people who can see humor in things.
What 1st got me was the comment about tires. I know nothing about tires, compounds, sizes or pressures, and I can’t remember ever commenting on them. I have on occasion, made mention of people’s choices of stagger, but that’s about it.
In any case, thank you for my morning laugh.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. Our
Temps on dirt work great for me.they keep me consistent and when I'm off, tire temps show me why.takes practice and you kinda have to develop your own method to the madness but they work for me.can you see the data? No but you can see it on the track. Gimme your name and I'll put it on the back of the seat so you can read it.lol
Most dirt racers use a chemically altered race tire and wipe prep through out the day and many different brands/ cut ratios ,each wipe and/or the amount will skew any tire temp reading to the point of all over the dang place "useless" ! A good air gauge and a durometer is all you need for dirt leave the temps for asphalt racing where it is very valuable and a must have. With a durometer and after prepping sometimes you will notice spots of different hardness's which will screw up your tire pyrometer readings. Even if you can get to your kart quick enough before running through mud ,sand ,dirt when coming off the track on tires that don't really get all that hot anyway. I don't know of anyone that uses tire temps on dirt and I have tried to hang close to the big dogs for over twenty years, LOL .Only my experience with tire temps on dirt here in NC,SC,VA !
Done my own research on temps.shot most of the winners temps at first.they were ALWAYS spot on.your right though on no one using them.im the only one ive ever seen doing it.everything I read on the internet says they are useless. They also say infared is trash for taking temps. Thats all well and fine but as for me ill keep using my useless trash methods.lol and more times then not you will find my fighting at the front.they work for me.maybe im the only one but again thats fine with me.only thing ill say is when the track is slick you have to know that when a tire slides it generates alot more heat then when it flexes.i made my own formula for tht.lastly as for tires not generating enough heat to read ill consider tht garbage.my tires read 102 plus in 70 deg weather last weekend.i ran upfront all nite.