If overall weight is important....then

Lucky_7

Member
How can a 100lb heavier driver run with or out run lighter classes. Ive seen it multiple times, a heavy class (425lb and up) driver absolutely dust the field in medium class on take off and nobody can catch them...whats the deal?
 

paulkish

old fart
How can a 100lb heavier driver run with or out run lighter classes. Ive seen it multiple times, a heavy class (425lb and up) driver absolutely dust the field in medium class on take off and nobody can catch them...whats the deal?

The answer is either about maintaining momentum between turn in and the start of acceleration, cheating or the racers in the medium class are toads.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
How can a 100lb heavier driver run with or out run lighter classes. Ive seen it multiple times, a heavy class (425lb and up) driver absolutely dust the field in medium class on take off and nobody can catch them...whats the deal?
like Paul said, med. class are toads
Smaller the track, the more the weight is a handicap
 

Lucky_7

Member
Its a small 1/10 mile track. Top 5 drivers have been racing for years. And some out of town fast guys show up sometimes, but can barely compete with the heavies. I guess tires could play a big factor also. If they have figured something out that nobody else is doing.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
Its a small 1/10 mile track. Top 5 drivers have been racing for years. And some out of town fast guys show up sometimes, but can barely compete with the heavies. I guess tires could play a big factor also. If they have figured something out that nobody else is doing.
then they arent true out of town fast guys,
1 track wonders can be tuff to unseat.
tires dont do anything with take off, so cheating is all thats left, may have the tech man in their pocket
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
then they arent true out of town fast guys,
1 track wonders can be tuff to unseat.
tires dont do anything with take off, so cheating is all thats left, may have the tech man in their pocket
I'm 100 percent on board with Jamie.
We raced over like that never out ran the field on the starts .
It was tough not to give up 2-3 spots or more .
 

Lucky_7

Member
I will admit that tech usually never goes past carbs, and removing the valve covers. I've been at the track for a few years and have never seen a side cover come off, or a no-go gauge in the carb for that matter.
 

GClary

Member
You don't have to be cheating , if your stuff is better , setup , tires , ect . I run 425 # when there are enough to field the class , but most of the time I am in 400 # . I have jumped down and ran 350 # class , and haven't had any trouble being competitive . I weigh in at 408 without any weight added .
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
You don't have to be cheating , if your stuff is better , setup , tires , ect . I run 425 # when there are enough to field the class , but most of the time I am in 400 # . I have jumped down and ran 350 # class , and haven't had any trouble being competitive . I weigh in at 408 without any weight added .
This is true you can be competitive .
Heres the original question.

How can a 100lb heavier driver run with or out run lighter classes. Ive seen it multiple times, a heavy class (425lb and up) driver absolutely dust the field in medium class on take off and nobody can catch them...whats the deal?

For discussion sake .
Are you able to gain positions at the drop of the flag , racing at 400# in a 350# class ?

Actually theres not enough detail here for a true comparison .
If you have a 100 # driver in a 350# class then add a 200# driver too a 150# kart your still at 350#
 

Lucky_7

Member
I was just under the impression that with a light, med and heavy class the lighter class karts would have an advantage over the heavier... Not true?
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Of course its True .
It can be overcome .
Look at a hp too weight comparison your working with a 30# - one horsepower at 360 . At 460# its 38.3 -1
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
If I'm not mistaken it take 10lbs per hp to run 13's on the quarter mile .
 

GClary

Member
This is true you can be competitive .
Heres the original question.

How can a 100lb heavier driver run with or out run lighter classes. Ive seen it multiple times, a heavy class (425lb and up) driver absolutely dust the field in medium class on take off and nobody can catch them...whats the deal?

For discussion sake .
Are you able to gain positions at the drop of the flag , racing at 400# in a 350# class ?

Actually theres not enough detail here for a true comparison .
If you have a 100 # driver in a 350# class then add a 200# driver too a 150# kart your still at 350#
I should have added that I personally weigh 250ish , lol . I race on a small dirt bullring track here in Ohio , and sometimes I think that the extra left side weight sometimes helps out by keeping the left side planted a little better in the corners and not so prone to a sort of bicycling effect idk . Most kart setups that people talk about here are probably more geared to the larger , flatter cornered type tracks . I think the banking of the corners sometimes throws people off . IDK , just my 2 cents , lol
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Yea my driver ain't no jokey .
Tall and big .
 

Jim46

Member
I raced with a big man in RWYB with an open 420 . He stuck to the bottom of the track, he was hard to beat
 

paulkish

old fart
I was just under the impression that with a light, med and heavy class the lighter class karts would have an advantage over the heavier... Not true?

The only reason for a heavier kart to beat a lighter kart on starts and in the race is because there is something lacking about the lighter kart. Either equipment or driver. The only hypothetical way a heavier kart can go faster then a lighter kart is if the extra weight adds grip in turns(actually it's not about weight adding grip it's about more weight requiring more grip) allowing the heavier kart to maintain better momentum. I think, meaning i'm not 100% sure, with the ability to control the grip of your tires through prep, extra weigh can only be a grip advantage if the lighter karts tires are not properly prepared.

Butt thunkin about it more ...

I have a question for you tire and physic gurus out there.

I assume the fastest way around a track is to run at the limit of grip and the limit of grip is always controlled by the speed your going and the weight your carrying. Sure lighter weight gets up to speed quicker then heavier weight but with time and enough grip will or will not the heavier weight be able to maintain more momentum and in turn more speed then the lighter weight?

We argue about engine drive sprocket size and seem to come to a consensus from experience about how a larger sprocket can cause equal weight karts to maintain more momentum.

Could more weight rotating in the turns physically be able to maintain more momentum rotating in the turns because of being able to control tire grip? Is the real trade off here maybe the ability to out accelerate verses the ability to maintain more momentum because of things(weight) in motion tend to stay in motion. Maybe more weight simply has more ability to maintain it's speed in the turns then lighter weight, assuming each have tires capable of maintaining grip without having excessive grip?

I think it's all about tires and your ability to cause all tires to roll in the direction you want to go at all places around the track while accelerating decelerating and maintaining momentum. Tires can be adjusted for grip and how they operate but it's still setup which applies weight at the right time to each tire at every place around the track. Perfect setup without perfect grip is just as bad as perfect tires without perfect setup, assuming you have a driver who knows how to use their equipment to take advantage of both perfect setup and perfect tires.

The question is if the acceleration advantage of the lighter kart is enough to overcome the momentum(things in motion tend to stay in motion) advantage of the heavier kart? Or the other way around is the momentum advantage of the heavier kart just enough to over come the acceleration advantage of the lighter kart?

... :) Or will the higher entry speed of the lighter kart be more maintained because it can run freer in the turns?

I still think given unlimited available grip via prep and tire preparation the lighter kart should always able to both out accelerate the heavier kart and travel faster through the turns. ... but if no yellows can the heavier kart eventually build up enough speed to travel faster through the turns by maintaining more momentum then the lighter kart? ... :) maybe????
 
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flattop1

Dawg 89
The last paragraph is pretty close , the probability of no yellows is low thusly unlikely.
If indeed there are no yellows then both machines would gain momentum , with the lighter machine reaching its maximum velocity sooner .
Once that velocity has been reached there is no more acceleration.
I think the lighter machine would recover from driver errors faster as well .
 
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